I figured I would start this thread as a companion to the thread Toptier started, regarding McCain and a continuation of Bush.

Its ironic that both candidates are making change a part of their campaign.


How can they both trumpet change and who is the real change agent?

From where I sit, I see Obama's change as meaning that Democratic politics will be substituted for Republican politics. The Washington political poison and partisan politics would remain. It would simply be left centric rather than right centric.

Given that this is a liberal blog, I'm betting this is change you would welcome. A chance to put the Republicans in their place and force democratic policy down our throat.


What McCain and Palin offer is to turn the Washington policial scene on its head. They both have demonstrated that they aren't afraid to make waves in this regard. From my perspective this is real change, and is what excites me.

I want to eliminate the gridlock that cripples our congress. I want to see real bipartisan politics and compromise. I don't want to supstitute left wing partisan politics for right wing partisan politics, which is the change I see being trumpeted by Obama.

If I'm mischaracterizing the change Obama speaks of, please enlighten me.

How do they plan to turn Washington on its head when they're part of the problem?
For that matter, why are you continiously preaching this shit on a liberal based board? You won't prove your skewed garbage to anyone here.

As a newcomer, I would like to welcome you to RRMB.

Once you get to know me, you'll find that I'm really quite likeable.

1) Obama won't have to "reach across the isle", they'll all be Democrats anyway.

2) 6 years of Total Republican control, and 2 years of Republican obstructionism got what you see today.

3) McCain so confused he doesn't know what fucking country he's in ... and Palin can't help him unless she can see him from her backyard.

4) After 8 years of having republican policy forceed down our throat, it's only fair that the Democrats be given a chance.

5) At least you admitted that it's been 8 years of "right wing partisan politics".

Q's like the house conservative

the reverse Alan Colmes if you will

let's not get carried away

And how exactly do the plan to do this?

Links, please?

Well....the last 8 years have been a living hell for many in my family...even the republican members! I say it's time to turn Washington on it's head and shake loose the obstruction of the republicans AND cut loose the Dems who rolled over for them...get some environmental and banking regulations back in place and get rid of the gridlock by getting rid of the problem. I'd also like to see some accountability and investigations. As you know, my young nephew died in Iraq for
a big LIE...and I want to see that whole gang of criminals taken care of as well. time is on my side, there is no statute of limitations for war crimes and I can hope and pray that they will all swing at the Hague for what they have done.

and yes, you are very likeable...and give great hugs But on this election we disagree old friend.

It's the Republicans, Stupid!

Likeable...like a piñata.

Now, where's that stick?

Except QBC still has his spine and doesn't bend over for Murdoch.

Alright, Obama offers no change arguement. I have to grant you that I absolutely loathe a gridlocked congress, but that's the necessary evil when compared to the finance secretary demanding nearly dicatorial powers in order to save the economy.

I found the Republic Party's threat of making and using a "nuclear option" to override congressional deadlock on a SCOTUS appointment the exact opposite of how our congress is supposed to work.

In essence, the 12 years of Republic Party dominance wasn't enough for a total dominance, so they resorted to an extremist "stfu and obey or gtfo of our way" attitude which has translated into a failing congress that was supposed to change in 2006. The tables turned and the Democrats got a minimum majority, begging and allowing to be blackmailed for Lieberman's "loyalty".

I live in Texas. I got to read the Republic State Platform in 2004; it recommended the abolishing of Minimum Wage and Officially declaring that America is a Christian Nation. Legally barring homosexuals from teaching in public schools was voted down.

The simple fact that the Democrats are diametrically opposed to such backwards, neo-fascist ideals is a massive change.

It's their similarities between them that we need to demand change in. To stop caving into selling off bits of our Constitution for some false sense of security. To quit overpowering the Executive Branch and the Federal Law-Enforcement agencies "just until the war on terror is won and over".

I truly wanted to see a Paul/Kucinich presidential debate, they should have been the two getting more media attention.

Ten-four on that. I enjoy QBC, and I'm patiently waiting for him to get SOMETHING right! (Audacity of Hope, I suppose.)

Nope, I'm gonna read on thru this, and wrangle some - later. My wife is calling me to put drops in the dog's eye. (I know what to do when duty calls....)

I saw no bipartisanship when the Republicans had control so why should we care that the Repugs get dumped on when the Democrats are in control. If fact I kind of like Democratic politics as usual, it's a refreshing change. BTW we'll take care of that do nothing congress when we have a 60 vote majority

Oh, gawd ... with so many Americans actually thinking this way, it probably is hopeless.

Just let McCain win, have Republican fascists (and their enablers in the Dumb-o-cratic Party) completely destroy the middle class and kill democracy in America, fight the next revolution, get it over with, and rebuild.

(I'm looking at New Zealand, personally.)

Could you imagine what the world would look like if liberals did exactly this in 1932, when FDR took on Hoover?

Do you remember who else was elected in '32?

There are a couple of things you need to know, Democrats in 2006 only won the house by 1 seat and this is the cause of GRIDLOCK and filibustering in Washington.

Secondly, whenever the Dems try to get something past most of the time Bush vetoed it.

Bush has vetoed more bills than any President in HISTORY, 152 times out of 153.

If the DEMOCRATS can win the election and win more seats, they will make a BIG CHANGE IN WASHINGTON. With only one additional seat, this gives the RePubs opportunity to filibuster and drag legislature out that they don't want.

We stand a very good chance of doing just that
Democrats widen lead in battle for Congress

Keep the faith

It is so obscenely close in Florida. In my district, Raul Martinez is neck and neck with Lincoln DipShit-Balart. Balart won't have ay televised debates with him, and running nasty disingenuous ads against him, on countdown and rachel no less.

By the end of the week you will be calling Barrack Obusha an empty suit.
I disagree with a lot of his socialism but at least I liked him.
What went wrong with Obama these past days... he's sounds like Bush with his dumb, LATE, and uh uh ideas about the economy.

This is very sad for so called Democrats who put their faith in him, now you have to regret not choosing Hillary (not for VP but for the Nominee).

McCain was right on surge, right on Georgia, and right on the call to fire COX.
Obama was late, wrong, and foolish... but he looks and talks so well right?
And with the UN in town it just furthers the point... Pres. of Iran still talking crap, Obama wrong again.

Why don't you Obama fans tell us what Obama is going to change. Everytime this question is posed, nobody can give anyone an answer.

If it's the end of war...well, you're being made a fool. Obama and Hillary were gearing up for more wars. Now why is that? Where the fuck would we get the money? It's mass suicide...literally.

Obama's war room

McCain was right on Georgia? ? Care to explain that one?

Could you tell me what Obama wants to do about the economy?

Surge didn't work, payoffs did...
http://politicalmpressions.wordpress.com/2...oney-not-surge/

Might want to backup your pointless meanderings with links.

I can name that self-deception in only 2 sentences. Ironic? It's blatant plagarism on behalf of the McCain campaign. So bereft of ideas that they have to take from Obama to try and appear worth the time of the voters. And a pretty short-sighted theft at that considering the only real thing they had on Biden was that 20 year old plagarism complaint. Now they dare not even broach the topic without tossing open the floodgates on their own lack of ideas. The only change McCain offers is the sudden changes from whatever his campaign is doing one day to whatever his Sjogren's-rotted brain decides might best reposition him for votes the next day.

And you're buying into it, or using it as a talking point. You're a pretty well-informed individual from what I've seen of some of your other posts. Maybe after the election you can recount for us what it was like to personally experience the intellectual vacuum of falling for the latest Republican campaign tactics.

I'll take this.

Pick an issue

In dividing this question into Democrat v. Republican - I think we become confused.

I see the problem as Beltway v. citizenry Washington vs. the Unwashed. Obama has made it a clear focus of his intent to draw in the citizenry and involve them. This is no guarantee that he will be independent from the Democratic center-of-mass in Washington.

But McCain offers not even a return to traditional Republicanism, but continued gathering of unitary Executive power to run a corrupt and inefficient bureaucracy that is driving this country into the sad poverty of postwar futility. His status as maverick is based only upon his habits of being unpredictable, irascible and erratic. That's not the leadership I can count on, my friend!

It's like saying - will you vote for Boris Yeltsin, or not? He's a drunk! I see it merely as the glimmer of hope that we may be able to reassert our citizen leadership of this country - or spend four more years of drifting along in senility under our version of Konstantin Chernenko.

Throughout the course of this campaign, Barack Obama has been speaking about the need for Change. For more than eighteen months on this campaign, Change has been Obama's central theme and message. Change in leadership. Change in policy. Change in approach. Change in mindset. Change in direction. Real Change in Washington. We are the Change we've been waiting for. Change we can believe in. Change we need.

McCain has been talking about change for three weeks.

After more than a year and a half and at times mocking Obama and his message of change, McCain has finally caught on that the country wants change. But just because McCain and his campaign have decided to co-opt "change", it doesn't mean that he offers change. Rather his blatant attempt to steal Obama's message of change is an act of desperation, and it further proves that McCain has no message of his own and he offers no vision for the future. It's not ironic that McCain is attempting to paint himself as change, it's insincere, cynical and pollictically motivated. And it proves all the more that McCain is more of the same.

and you will be wrong in November

How sad it is for you to have to base your entire support for McCain on the Surge, Georgia, and his call to fire Cox.

How can you mention the Surge without mentioning that McCain told us that the war would be easy and that it would pay for itself? And how can you ignore the fact that McCain argued for and voted for this war, despite not bothering to read the NIE report? And how can you support McCain when he voted to send our troops to war without the proper equipment and that he argued against the G.I. Bill before being shamed into voting for it?

Obama wasn't late nor was he wrong. His prediction of how Iraq would unfold has been eerily prophetic. He was so much ahead of everyone else on Iran and Pakistan and Afghanistan, that the same proposals that were once scoffed at and ridiculed are now accepted as popular thought and have been adopted by the Bush administration.

As for McCain's statements on Georgia and his call to fire Cox, you don't even have to go to liberal blogs to find harsh criticism, conservatives are busy blasting him.

Right, big change. You've answered your own question. And "gridlock", you're right again unless we get 60 senators. If we do, no gridlock.

The United States is really two (at least) countries right now. We don't really like or agree with you guys, and you really don't like or agree with us. So let me address just a few things that will change with Barack.

You Republicans threw out "gentlemanly" politics with Newt Gingrinch and the contract with America back in 1994. You and Ken Starr hounded Bill Clinton over nothing throughout the '90's, and brought real "change" and progress in this country to a standstill over Bill Clinton's libido. And now, "gentlemanly" politics is mocked as being "weak" and "indecisive". Thus, you seek to prevent "gentlemanly" politics from ever returning. Congratulations.

You guys have manipulated the religious right with promises of Row v. Wade repeal and constitutional amendments against gay marriage, but have delivered nothing to them, and only bring it up when you need a wedge issue to keep people from discussing real issues that would address their true "Christian" concerns (like peace and helping the poor and down-trodden). Congratulations.

You guys have expanded the size of Government, the power of Government, and gutted our system of checks and balances. You have instituted Bush as a virtual dictator and Congress is his syncophantic rubber stamp. Your gospel of the energy deregulation brought California to it's knees and has brought us $4 a gallon gasoline. Your deregulation of wall street and the banking industry, now threatens to throw us into a depression (didn't we learn anything from the great depression?). Congratulations.

Let's not even talk about the size of the budget deficit. It's not enough to bankrupt this generation, you want our children and our grand children as well. Congratulations.

You Republicans are against "national healthcare". Actually, you're really for it, because we've had it in this country for years now. The problem is you're just for really BAD national healthcare. Hospitals don't refuse the indigent, they just pass them around from emergency room to emergency room (the most expensive and least effective kind of health care there is) and then pass the cost to those of us who do health insurance and/or can afford to pay. Congratulations.

You guys have now set the precedent for pre-emptive, elective, yet incredibly profitable war. Proof? We don't need no stinkin' proof! Well, OK, we'll just fudge a few facts here and there, and then look sincerely into the camera (or in front of the general assembly of the UN) and lie. Just trust us, we know what we're doing. And when our allies question what we're doing, we'll mock them and call them names like "surrender monkeys". Congratulations.

Education, we don't need no stinking education! If home schooling and the "3 R's" was good enough for Abe Lincoln, then it ought to be good enough for everyone. And "creationism" is a theory, just like "evolution" is a theory, so they should be taught side by side. And global warming is a farce. Never mind the facts of science, just believe in us. Science has been wrong before, so why isn't it wrong now? Beware of "intellectuals", they are dangerous, so we must mock and marginalize them at every opportunity. But since you've made it clear that any inarticulate monkey can be President, what really is the value of an "education". Money is the only measure of success and intelligence, and the concept of public service is for suckers. Congratulations.

Truly, I could go on and on. But your question is what "change" will Barack bring. I hope you now have an inkling about the breadth and scope of the change. We may not get everything right away, but given 8 years, we will get most it.



In this half of the United States (because we are at least 2 countries, not one) we have a very different perspective and priorities than you have in your United States. McCain will just be more of the same because the "perspective" and "priorities" don't change. McCain's basic philosophy is your country's philosophy, not mine.

(Although, I must admit I sort of like McCain -- he's not nearly as big of a jerk as most of you are, and he does seem to have some substance outside of his personal wealth.)



Not possible at this time. Your priorities are too different from ours. We've comprised too much and made no progress. Your side holds out compromise as a carrot, and then takes advantage of our trust and we're left holding an empty bag.

Republicans have got to go. You all need to regroup into something else, because with what you are now, we have no desire to compromise with you anymore. Politics will force us to do so, but we won't be happy about it.

QBC, I mean this with all sincerity....

Get a grip.

Change? Nothing will probably change with either candidate and you know it. McCain is not an agent of change nor is Obama.

The issue is solely ability and aptitude, which candidate can handle the job and make the right decisions without depending on some shadow chamber to pull his strings? Which candidate can be the best informed person in the room when a tough decision needs to be made?

If you say McCain and Palin you are a fucking liar. They are dumb.

DUMB AS A FUCKING STUMP.

Obama can handle it, they cannot, end of story.

If you refute this, you are full of shit.

Have a nice day.

I saw last night that Barack holds a 49% - 43% lead in Tampa (2 point lead overall) which is considered to be an indicator of how the state will go. Do you agree?

I think it's close enough everywhere else that South Florida will make it or break it for Obama, and its very tight here, falling almost along age lines.

Sigh... hang it up, Q. Nobody here is buying your brand of

Alaway concur on that.

So sick of used car salesman trying to run a country into the ground.

That's not even close to an accurate statement! I liked him much more before I realized that he's just another empty shill.

Once you get to know him, you will find that he is lacking in credibility and is unable to articulate ANY "change" policies from his candidates from the "broken Washington" the McCain team acknowledges exists but does not have ANY intention of "changing." He just keeps spouting generic, thematic rhetoric.

So this is yet another false comparison.

We already KNOW what specific "changes" Obama wants to make. We already KNOW he wasn't talking about "changing" the Democrats!

We already KNOW that McCain has NO change to offer from what has been going on over the last 8 to 12 years.

So again, QBC, you've burnished your lack of any credibility on the issue AND provided yet another opportunity to drive home the fact that not only can YOU not articulate what SPECIFIC changes McCain plans to make, McCAIN can't do it either!

OK. Change. There is one thing that Obama will change that McCain won't. That is the party of POTUS.

So what? The real values of POTUS and his team affect policy for the country. By their deeds shall ye know them (values). There IS such a thing as Republican values (for the current flavor of Republican), incorporating notions of elitism, me-first-and-foremost, war over learning, I could go on. McCain shares those values, his empty words notwithstanding.

It is NECESSARY (but not sufficient) to REMOVE ALL REPUBLICANS from public office, because REPUBLICAN VALUES ARE INCONSISTENT WITH PUBLIC SERVICE. There is therefore a high value in CHANGING the party of record of POTUS. Obama can do that. McCain cannot.

The values of the "loyal opposition" do not get a blanket pass. There are BAD DEMOCRATS, DINOS and worse. They've gotta go also.

Obama might have his flaws, but if we can see values via deeds, then his values are more what we need because he has lived those values for decades. He believes in public service.

No desire to get to know you. Zero.

Grampy's incoherent attempt to discuss the Wall Street Crisis: a fleeting senior moment? or permanent doddering senility?

You are wrong. If you look at McCain's character and past performance, and look at Palin's character and past performance, there is no difference between McCain and Bush and no difference between Palin and Cheney. Just because McCain promises that he has changed, is not a good indication that he has changed. Considering how often he has flipped, even in just the last year and last week, why would one take McCain's words over his actions?

Yup. Most people know from experience that people don't change. Therapists know it from their practice. Yes, sometimes one does. About one in ten.

So we should be generous and perhaps concede that McCain is being sincere is his desire to change. Then we should conclude that good intent aside, he won't change, any more than a spouse abuser does. So we should attach a 10% chance to his promise of change. And then send him home.

although to be fair, if you mean they will turn us into a theocracy, then you may be right, other than that...just corrupt politics as usual

You need to look at this from 40 thousand feet.

Let's examine John McCain's claims about himself, from his adds, from TV appearances, and from the internet:

1. He had an identical prison guard experience to that which Solzhenitsyn wrote of himself.
2. The fundamentals of our economy are strong.
3. General Betray-us can walk around Bagdad with no protection.
4. He’s against corporate CEO’s having golden parachutes at the expense of employees and shareholders.
5. He has no lobbyists in his campaign staff.
6. He told the Congress to tighten up regulations and oversight of the banking industry.

Next, examine John McCain's claims about Sarah Palin, from his adds, from TV appearances, and from the internet:

1. She is ready right now to be president.
2. She knows more about energy than anyone in America.
3. She sold the states private jet on eBay, and for a profit.
4. She doesn’t take earmarks.
5. She stopped the bridge to nowhere.

Last, examine John McCain's claims about Barack Obama, from his adds, from TV appearances, and from the internet:

1. He will raises taxes on the middle class.
2. He is an extremist Muslim.
3. He called Pain a pig.
4. He wants to teach comprehensive sex education to kindergartners.
5. He will tax our 401K’s.

With that said, my question for you is: If McCain is on record with this many lies, what assurance do you have that he will change anything, and not be a Bush clone rubber stamp of Republican neoconservatism and greed?

He's a chameleon. He will say anything he needs to for a vote. I think the John McCain that ran in 2000 was assasinated and replaced with a top secret Republican andriod.

Isn't that special. Peak couldn't jack this thread.

http://forums.therandirhodesshow.com/index...=10222&st=0

So he starts this one because he knows people just love to kick him and by starting this one he diverts attention from the original one. He started this one to answer, and what gets me is no one else realizes what he does.

Peak doesn't like a thread he tries to hijack it. He doesn't use any facts he just comes in and starts posting his crap and everyone just follows right along.

I have noticed in his responses, he does not listen to Randi. Some of his crap you can debunk just going to her home page.

Ditto.

Thank you Gonzogirl. Welcome to the RRMB.

My first reaction to the thread "title" is .... so?

And your point is???

Obama's campaign theme (foundation, really) is NOT about getting away from "democratic" ideology.

Only a mental midget would think that (yes, RWers, I'm talking to you.)

Those of us who are fed up with the direction the country is heading, and the leadership that it has had over the last decade and more TOTALLY GET what Obama's "change rhetoric" is all about.

AND, lucky us, he even puts solid, specific proposals behind WHAT THAT "CHANGE WE NEED" LOOKS LIKE.

It's not just lofty talk of generic change, it's articulated and specific.

Which is why QBC and others like him "don't get it" and think that McCain can just co-opt a phrase and people will go, "Oh Looky! McCain doesn't like the direction of the country either and he's gonna change it, too!"

Except for one minor flaw: His "change" is nothing. His proposals and articulated vision and direction (for what LITTLE articulation he has provided) is IDENTICAL to the policies and direction of the last 10+ years.

So, QBC is correct, Obama ISN'T providing "change from Democratic ideology." Nor did he purport to!

Again, QBC's credibility and mental acuity decreases with every post.

HA!