That really is the question.

Before you throw our national finances further into the chipper-shredder, isn't it wise to PAUSE and ANALYZE what the hell's going on?

And Randi asked another critical question, "Isn't this just George Bush holding the country hostage, unless it throws it's wealth away to his banker buddies?"

No question we have economic problems, but that does not necessarily mean it requires this radical shit. Especially when it does exactly SQUAT to help AVERAGE PEOPLE.

And she's right -- NOBODY's buying that this is necessary. Helping regular folks? Sure. But kissing banker ass after they screwed up their own business? No.

And my Republican friends are the ones most pissed off by this, because they know this isn't Capitalism. This is reverse Socialism. A reverse Robin Hood.

Actually, come to think of it, considering the thugs involved, we should also be seriously considering the implications of this:

"The hidden hand of the market will never work without a hidden fist." - NY Times columnist Mr. "Flat Earth" Tom Friedman

That's right. They want to fist you. And not in the fun way.

IMO, there is as much of a financial crisis as there is a "terrorist" crisis.

I encourage everyone to see the BBC documentary The Power Of Nightmares. It explains the psychology of modern government rule by simultaneously causing fear and assuaging fear.

The boogie man was terrorism until a few months ago. It has been replaced by the boogie man economic collapse.

Now, we ARE in for a long period of stagflation (which is what ended the USSR), but there will be no complete economic collapse, because that would end any popular support for the GOP forever and they can't have that.

Just like "terrorism," this boogie man is an engineered situation. Don't be manipulated.

It's worth asking that question NOW --- before people get into panic mode and stop T-H-I-N-K-I-N-G.

Now it is ESPECIALLY CRITICAL that people keep thinking, not having knee-jerk reactions.

This is precisely the kind of situation where McCain would go off half-cocked, and the difference in the candidates is getting REALLY stark.

Barack is calm and thoughtful, McCain is panicking. That should tell you a lot right there.

ICAM, 5by. That's how McCain and his pack of Jerk Officers have been getting their way, by preventing any higher brain functions. This has run thin, now. Obama appeals to the cortex and it appears to have some traction.

Yeah, EXACTLY. That is their M.O.

And this bill is an America-killer.

The only way they get away with that is by mind-numbing people.

Hell just froze over, Harry Reid just said something smart.

Reid just said, "McCain would be slowing down the process on this bill, not speeding it up. We don't need them coming back and injecting presidential politics into this debate. We need leadership, not a photo-op."

!!!

It's been a long time since he's deserved this, but "Way to go, Harry!"

Looks, however, that Napoleon Dumb-o-mite has met its Waterloo.

IMO, the GOP should have known better than to fuck with the people's economy. You toucha my pocketbook and I breaka you party.

The GOP is now extinct. Had they wisely invested the 2 Trillion surplus left by Clinton, they would go for a long time. Well, they got their 8 years and that's it. Probably forever. No more Reagans, no more Bushes, no more failures.

No crisis. Obama still wants to debate. So the proverbial ball is back in McStupid's court. Good on Obama.



Is he going to drag his Palin-mute in there too???

Repukes are going down.

Exactly!

The only crisis is for those who need our money to bail them out of a potential spot in the poor house.

Bank bailouts didn't work for us in 1931 and they didn't work for Japan in 1998.

Let 'em fall. If you want a truly free Capitalist market devoid of "distortions", then you need to accept the consequences when your nutty shell game comes crashing in on you. You can't soak up all the profits and then stick the public with the losses by fear mongering them into acting against their own best interests.


Let's see..

1 - Banks loan us money and charge us interest

2 - Banks fail and we get to give them a zero interest gift to keep them in business

3 - Banks loan us back our own money and charge us interest

Flawless business plan!

Adam---As a vet who got into more than a little trouble in the USMC, I know what you mean. In the military they hit you where it hurts, the wallet. One time I was late by 30 minutes, UA, in our branch, it cost me $100 in NJP fines, even though the cab driver got lost picking me up, and it happened more than once. I didn't tip, either time.

Ooh, sorry - that's gotta hurt. We should impose USMC discipline on Paulson and Bernanke.

Here we go with the Bush "Fear Factor" again. Are they creating this massive
crisis to enable "W" to suspend the election. These facists are frightening.

DDUCKSHUN--- Welcome to the board, the 9F ranch is, regrettably, in Illinois, so I had to welcome you. The only state with more convicted Governors than any other state, wow, great. Maybe we should make them eat worms to get their way or lose and go home....

I do agree we have a problem, it's this administration. We need to modify and amend the definition of WMD (Weapons of Mass Destruction) to include:

IDETPs (Improvised Domestic Economic Terrorism Policies) -

Symptoms and warnings signs:

"We are running out of time!"

We need to add a couple of new symbols to the Homeland Security Alerts:

Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment

Sigh. I have to admit being really freaked out at first, and a bunch of us were - but then Naomi Klein kept appearing on the various talk shows, reminding us that we had been forewarned of the Shock Doctrine - NOT just to prevent it, but to be prepared not to freak out. And it started sinking in - wait a minute, the real crisis is the fear they are creating in order to nail their economic coffin. Not that there isn't a problem, but our FEAR was based on what we were being told by the White House. So it sounds like a bunch of us have taken a breath and realized this.

But the Congress has been absolutely spectacular - including the members that got us to this point. We got to this point, and then they realized that maybe it wasn't such a good idea in the first place and then step up to the plate!

I love how someone on MSNBC today said that when Darth Cheney showed up yesterday, the Republicans almost as one body practically hurtled him back through the door!!!

You can't imagine what goes through my mind when I read things like that. I was wondering about open windows and things.

And now the Americans are going to hurl the Republicans through the door. The Republicans fucked with the economy - really bad move- and will be made extinct.

If you want to succeed in business and politics, you have to actually show a PROFIT with your constituents'/shareholders' investments. Steal it, and you die.

SHOCK & AWE, BABY!

RUSH THE RESCUE, TURN A BLIND EYE to the biggest HIEST in human history. Not to mention the end of a great country.

You're going to get your 'shock', if Congress doesn't comply with this rush job. We haven't been witnessing a domestic paramilitary build up for nothing.

Since you refused to LOOK at 9/11 being an inside job...THEY KNOW you're suckahs, so they just shock and awe you until you say "yes". And Congress knows it.

As Randi stated - if this really was a rescue of a drowning person at the very last extreme, using the minimal resources available - wouldn't wall street be exhausted-but-grateful, not jumping around like puppies on cocaine? If the market really WAS in trouble, and a bailout had NOT been signed, wouldn't the market be way down - avoiding risk? No, they're booming along, just like a junkie who's got a BIG BAG of drugs. They were never off the junk long enough to get the shakes.

There's a fun way?

Ask any skilled lesbian.

SHIT!!! This is friggen unbelievable!!! I honestly let myself think that Congress was all against this bill - but now they are planning on passing it! I got an email from Democrats.com that said that, but I thought maybe they were just going with that in order to have street protests this afternoon - no, it's true!!!!!

And the thing is, I woke up this morning pretty convinced that there isn't a real crisis - I mean, just based on the Bush administration's pattern of repsonse to crisis - look at it:


9/11, real crisis: they sat back and didn't do anything until we were all good and freaked out and they could swoop in with their shock and awe, leave it to us, we'll take care of you, just go shopping.

Iraq, fake crisis: we have to act NOW or we'll all die a horrible death!!!

Katrina, real crisis: don't allow rescuers in, and tell FEMA relief workers to just sit back and cool their heels (this, by the way, is exactly what they did here after Wilma, same response, less catastrophic so you may not have heard about it).

There was some other real crisis, fill this in for me please, I can't remember, probably because they did nothing, but we survived anyway.

Today, economic crisis: Is it real? Based on their response, that our pants are on fire, "Sign this now now now or we'll all plunge into the worst depression ever!!!!!!!!! WE ALONE know how to solve it!!! If you don't do what we advise NOW, we will have an economic nuclear bomb!!!!!!!!!!"

So I think this is all utter BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But Congress lied us us AGAIN and is going to pass this bill!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh my god, I am so pissed off. What the hell are we supopose to do??? Congress has all been saying how they have been absolutely flooded with our phone calls and emails, that it's been HUGE, and that they agree, but no, in the end, they sell us out anyway, apparently according to this article in the Washington Post, "The Bush Who Cried Wolf", because the WH has succeeded in scaring them that we are about to go over a cliff and they don't want to be blamed for the next great Depression.

For some reason my computer is being weird and not letting me copy the url of the artlcle: if you want to Google it, its by Dan Froomkin.

So will the protests this afternoon MEAN ANYTHING???? Does this stupid Congreass EVER stand up to this WH, EVER???????????????????

I'm sick of this, moving to Antarctica.

There is a financial "crisis".

What it is, is that the financial services industry was severely de-regulated in 1999 and 2000, and now needs to be re-regulated.

This will prevent this kind of crap from ever happening again.

I'd like some Democratic politicians to simply hammer home that simple, freaking message.

YEAH!!! It would be soooooo great if Congress called the WH's bluff, and used this bill to reregulate, and put in place laws that are good for the actual warm-blooded human beings that populate this country. They have that opportunity RIGHT NOW But will they? No, they just say how they are "reluctantly" signing the bill.

Ron Paul had some interesting comments about the government's involvement in all this:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/23/pau...lout/index.html

Additionally, I find it interesting that no one has stepped up to the plate and admitted to helping contribute to the current mess. There's a lot of finger pointing, but no "mea culpa" from anyone. Surely there are current and former members in both houses of Congress, the current and former administrations, the Fed and a myriad of financial institutions all had something to do to build this house of cards. Of course the ones left holding the bag is the taxpayer. Some things never change...

Ron Paul had some interesting comments about the government's involvement in all this:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/23/pau...lout/index.html

Additionally, I find it interesting that no one has stepped up to the plate and admitted to helping contribute to the current mess. There's a lot of finger pointing, but no "mea culpa" from anyone. Surely there are current and former members in both houses of Congress, the current and former administrations, the Fed and a myriad of financial institutions all had something to do to build this house of cards. Of course the ones left holding the bag is the taxpayer. Some things never change...

Well, this must be another situation where Ron Paul and I reach diametrically opposed conclusions.



Uhhh.... Ron.... the problem was not excessive regulation of the financial sector, it was deregulation. Exactly the OPPOSITE of what you're saying.

OK, Ron - so is THIS what libertarians are thinking? Talk about creating your own rreality! The libertarian model is what has brought us here, and this has been an obvious outcome form the very beginning. But to then for him to blink a few times and blame this on TOO much regulation? I guess he means those regulations where the Republicans forced lenders to give money to black people - where do they get this stuff???

Libertarians are a special class of religious nuts...except their "god" is something they call the "invisible hand" that keeps the market stable. Just like Odin, Zeus, Mithra, et al, this god never shows itself.

Ah - thanks Roy, for clearing that up. Maybe the god only shows himself in some sacred place, the libertarian Mecca or Ark of the Covenent.

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No way do I believe that there is a real close to depression crisis, this is the October suprise that puts a big fat dividend in their slimy pockets.
They created this mess almost thirty years ago when they, Regan began deregulating everything and undoing all that FDR had done to create a stable economy.
I did a short animated film about this history and it's implications today, here's the link on you tube...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8arYlKgYws