I certainly hope all of the "experts" that are against the "bailout" are right.... If the sky does indeed now fall, I wonder what will be said and who will be blamed then?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/financial_meltdown

Bailout voted down!

You do realize that this also means that all protection against mortgage foreclosures has also been voted down, right?

Well, I'll defer to those who are happy about this failure, because as I've said, I don't know enough about the situation to give it a thumbs up or a thumbs down. I don't like the idea of enriching incompetent millionaires, but at the same time, keeping the people in their homes and regulating the credit markets seems like a good idea to me.

I sure hope everything doesn't tank now. I'm not so worried about myself, it's other people. And I've got 3 kids in college, I hate to think the price that they may have to pay.

Maybe it won't be so bad...

Well, one of two things happening? Paulson and Bush will have to give more to American people, or time has run out and do nothing at all and let Wall Street work it out. They say students won't get student loans, car loans will go down, more job loss, small business goes down - let's see what happens. Rosh Hashanah is sundown tonight. Another matter to consider.

I like this though, in a way, I want to see if the sky will fall and I want to see more protections for the people - hello? bankruptcy protection? I want to see solid golden parachute rejection, period, and I want to see no company that got us in the mess taking the people's money again.

Americans are saying they are already in depression with W. - what's the diff?

Matthews is saying this is a loss for McCain.

More than half of the country has their retirement plans invested in Wall Street. As we speak and the DOW plunges, those retirement plans are turning to pulp.

Looks like Pelosi did it, according to Alan Putnam:

Thank God we still have Social Security.

Roosevelt was right!

There is no doubt that a period of "attitude adjustment" may be long overdue. As a whole, this country is way out of whack. An extended period of struggle and poverty may just be what we need. Just with happened in the Great Depression, I just hate to think of the innocent, hard-working people who are likely to be crushed.

Oh well, a slow-lingering death vs. a fast, quick blow, followed by a sweeping reconstruction may be best. Then again, maybe it was all BS and nothing significant happens. Either way, I think we will all be wiser in the very near future.

Who knows how Bush/Cheney will react to this. Congress needs to be strong, along with the people.

Jobs, jobs, jobs. That's the problem and median income needs to go up.

Holy Christ the Dow... this is bad. This is really bad.

Yes, Social Security. But that too is a target of republican party.

A fast quick blow would have been followed by more, I think.

Attitude adjustment!! I like that. As far as those who could and have already been crushed - it's time for Congress to think about jobs. Of course I worry about the elderly now too.

Obama is saying they need to re-negotiate.

Tell me about it. As it stands right now, I've lost more than $2,500 this morning.

Sorry to hear that, Kane.

I worry about the elderly too, and their retirement IRA's and such.

I already lost in the market and got out a while ago. And I'm worried about my daughter's investments too. Hope she is on top of this and moving her money.

You can blame ass wipe broke ass wanna be capitalist Republicans for putting our country in the fucking tank. They ran our country in to the ground cause they are afraid that they might be gay, or they fear the black dude or Mexican on t.v. or at the grocery store. A bunch of cowardly pea brained ass hats who are too freaking lazy to think or research to determine the root of their problems.

Thanks, Eggy. My investment is peanuts. But I worry about people like my parents who rely a great deal on their retirement and stock dividends. And then there's all those IRAs and 401k investments.

My husband owns his own business.

He has been poised to expand and has been investing in some capital improvements.

This is going to halt all that.

It may even cause some huge issues in meeting inventory. So now instead of looking to expand, he's going to be struggling to stay in business. The only thing helping at this point is that Louisville is a UPS hub.

Oh, wait, shipping costs are going through the roof, too. Maybe that won't help so much. . . .

Thanks for all the support, guys.

Guess we showed them, huh?

Barney Frank: They voted against the bill and are going to punish the country because their feelings were hurt? Give me the names of those members and I'll go talk to them and say uncharacteristically nice things about them.

Why in the hell are you clapping. Take a look at the market and the free fall it's in. There is nothing to celebrate here!!!

I'm going to dread looking at my IRA and other fund accounts tonight and in the near future.

What exactly did Pelosi say that made so many of the Repubs go the other way? I can't imagine that MERE WORDS have caused this, have they???

If you are for it, you can blame Pelosi. first off, she couldn't put together a package that even her own party could support, and then it is usually a good idea when you are the speaker of the whole house you don't blame the party on the other side you want to support your bill and lay no blame on your own. She needs to go. she is pitiful. Her own party could have changed legislation to stop this reckless lending anytime in the last year plus but didnt. Maybe the republicans should have done more, agreed, but to lay the total blame on the republicans is just dishonest. The speaker, I thought, was to remain neutral and not engage in party bashing. That is for other to do.

NO! They spent more money than they were taking in. They got less money because they took our infrastructure and sent it overseas. Without an infrastructure what does an American do to make a living? Some use the internet to skim money off, but how long will that last? They use the credit card to fund a government, a war, and everything else. 12 trillion and counting...........................

She blamed Bush.

They didn't want to hear that.

So they shoved their noses into a high-speed fan.

30 years of repuke rule since Reagan. Minus out 5 put in by Clinton, but that ain't much.

She told the truth. Time to re-negotiate for the people. GAO needs to run oversight and ability for taxpayer to re-negotiate their loans. Solid Golden Parachute extinction too. Then we'll deal.

I am now against this plan. i hope it goes down to defeat. We need to get rid of all this spending and having a good recession will allow that to happen. Sometimes, you need to tear things down to rebuild them stronger. I am ready for the pain.

Even if the bill had passed and somehow magically prevented the market from falling, it would have destroyed what's left of the value of the dollar.

This was the right choice to make. Hoover tried a bailout in 1931 and it just made things worse.

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/09/29/bailout-mccain/
...
Over the past week, McCain’s (R-AZ) campaign has already been to touting the senator’s success and casting his role as pivotal to bringing the parties together. His supporters have hit the airwaves, giving McCain credit for negotiating a deal:

“This bill would not have been agreed to had it not been for John McCain. … But, you know, this is a bipartisan accomplishment, a bipartisan success. And if people want to get something done in Washington, they just watch John McCain.” — Former Massachusetts governor Mitt Romney, 9/29/08

“Earlier in the week, when Senator McCain came back to Washington, there had been no deal reached. … What Senator McCain was able to do was to help bring all the parties to the table, including the House Republicans.” — Senior adviser Steve Schmidt, 9/28/08

“But here are the facts, and I’m not overselling anything. The fact is that the House Republicans were not in the mix at all. John didn’t phone this one in. He came and actually did something. … You can’t phone something like this in. Thank God John came back.” — Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC), 9/28/08

“Before John McCain suspended his campaign yesterday, the situation that we’re looking at today looked very different then. After he showed leadership and called for bipartisanship, for us to partisanship aside and tackle this solution head on, here we are.” — Spokesman Tucker Bounds, 9/25/08
...

It hurt their feelings?


http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/220689.php

Oh yeah, the McCain campaign was really beating their chests on the Sunday news programs. They even had an ad that claimed that McCain singlehandily fixed the economic crisis while Obama did nothing.
And now the Republicans want to blame the bill being voted down because of Nancy Pelosi?
I hope Americans are paying attention to this and finally wake up to what the Republican Party really represents, and votes appropriately.

Look-I don't want to have too much shodenfraude (sp). It means a shameful joy in German. At least that's what I was told. But I'm not too terribly worried. I kept my money literally in my mattress, (you know what I mean...it's actually in a safe) because I knew this IDIOT president would do something like this.

When Obama takes office, (and I'm fairly confident of his VICTORY) I will then take my savings and put it back in the system. He will fix it up as best he can in the next 8 years, and then, who knows....certainly not a Republican, that's for sure. Maybe Biden, (doubt it) maybe the Independants will have someone worth voting for. I personally believe that Obama is more central than left.

The stock market was bound to do this...it got too big, too fast. You know it, I know it...now we fix. It's what we do best. I'm sorry that the next things you'll be seeing is a rise in suicides as well. It's not gonna be pretty. But it will be HISTORIC!

Thanks for letting me vent! AND NEVER FORGET THIS DAY!!!

Slowness to bail out AIG increased the cost of the bailout to about double.

As much as I like the way this election is going I think running out the clock may not be the best idea.

Yea, be pissed at the Repubs. But watching a trainwreck while eating popcorn might not be the most mature thing to do.

Either way, I'm all about the top of the ticket right now.

Yes, there's something wrong when the Bush administration says no one will be able to get credit, meanwhile, I'm still being sent credit card applications every god damn day, I see ads all over the internet for the same mortgage schemes and, being back in school, I'm not hearing about anyone who didn't get their student loans this year.

It's all a scam by the Republicans. They are simply stealing the treasury as fast as they can. That's the plan, steal everything they can that isn't nailed down, in case they actually do get voted out of the White House and actually have to vacate.

schadenfreude

. . . It means just simply a taking wicked delight in someone else's misfortune.

Not necessarily good for karma, and is often done as a twitter behind one's fan, as opposed to just outright whooping it up.

Also, it tends to have a flavor of poetic justice associated with it, especially if that "someone else" is someone who has been kicking your arse forever and a day.

Today the DOW had it's biggest fall EVER! 777.68 points!
A bigger fall than on 9/11.




Let the record show that 60% of Democrats in the House voted for this bill. 33% of Republicans.

There is more than one reason why the package didn't pass. First of all, there are the libertarian-leaning House Republicans who won't pass anything, because they believe the investment banks should simply fail, and if that brings down Wall Street, then so be it. Evidently, they learned nothing from the Great Depression and I can only surmise that they wish to return to the "ideals" of an unregulated industrial society. Or perhaps they'd like to go even further back to the Jeffersonian agrarian ideal...

Then there is the Democratic opposition that the plan doesn't protect the common man on main street, but does bail out fat-cat millionaires. I think this position makes sense, but then, I'm a Democrat and can not fail to think of the common good first before the needs of the greedy, privleged few. However, in the ensuing fight, we may pass the threshold and disaster is unavoidable. Then, we all lose.

The stock market isn't looking good at this point. Yes, I've got my 401K on the line. If I lose my job and cannot find replacement work quickly, and I will lose my house. I can't work at Walmart and expect to make a $1900/month mortgage. But, I have come from poverty and I know how to survive, and I will survive again. Too bad my kids may have to pay a huge penalty for my generation's gridlock and folly. They can be the next "greatest generation" because it certainly isn't mine.

There is nothing like a crisis to adjust the attitudes of the American public. Looks to me like this is exactly where we are heading.

But the people who elect those that do what you have outlined do not have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of. Why the fuck is western Penn, Republican territory? Its Republican territory because of bullshit ass social issues and identity politics.

Yeah, if you could bear the pain for me and my family too that would be awesome. We sure could diffuse some of it.

Yeah, the democrats wanted to give away 350 billion dollars to wall street, 85 billion to AIG, 25 billion to to the soon to fail auto industry. The republicans refused. Which side is the public on?

You are even a bigger knucklehead than I thought.

I don't necessarily want it to go down but, I'm not unhappy that it did.

I am not convinced that it's real. These guys would lie about the color of the sky!

But you. You would delight in the misery of others. I hope you don't get your wish, only because of all the people it would get to b4 you.

IT doesn't look bad for Dems or Obama in my opinion, regardless of which way the media is trying to spin it. The repugs and McCain did so much whining about passing the bill that it is bad for them. For the most part, the public is going to believe that the repugs were wrong.

It wasn't our side that did this Toptier. The repugs fucked it up. Please tell me you don't believe any of that crap the MSM is putting out.

They are. Very few believe the repugs nemore.

WTF? What are libertarians doing in our government? They don't believe in government. What asshole elected them? If you don't believe in government that's fine but stay the hell out of mine. I am really pissed.

That's just an excuse coming from the the wingnuts. Nancy put the blame where it was due - right on Bush/Cheney. And I think Nancy deserves some kudus. She's been working under extreme pressure between the Drill, Drill, Drill and the Bail, Bail, Bail cries of the people that created this crisis and is doing the best she can. Actually, I'm glad to see the Dems stand up to the Repugs. I think they know they're going to have a majority next year as well as a Dem president, so things will get done, including reinstating the ban on offshore drilling; regulation of the markets, etc.

Actually, I think the Repugs should rent a big room and just sit and meditate while chanting their cult mantras: Blame, blame, blame. Drill, drill, drill. Bail, bail, bail. Bomb, bomb, bomb bomb bomb Iran.

As a matter of fact, I think John McCain's campaign has press releases pre-printed with the words, "McCain Blames ----[fill in the blank]" to cover daily news as it happens. At this point, do you think McCain is pissed, depressed or just happy he will be able to go home in another month and retire before he loses all his dignity?

Western Pennsylvania? I'm not all too familiar with this because I'm on the Eastern side near the city, but supposedly in the parts of PA where there aren't cities, mostly on the western side, we have more KKK activity than any other state. I am full of Philly pride, but that part of PA is not something I'm proud of.

All I know about the Western part of Pa. is that I drive through it real fast.

Is that the part that clings to the guns and God?

Interesting bit of PA trivia - PA has the highest Ku Klux Klan membership in the USA. Nice, huh? Remember, other than Philly, Harrisburg, and Pittsburgh, PA is mostly defunct coal mining towns, defunct steel towns, defunct farm towns, and prisons.

In this era its always the areas with very few people of color particularly blacks; virtually no jobs, and a bunch of people looking for something to raise their ego or id. Racism, meth, and joblessness is a bad mix.

I think this is one area in which I disagree with Obama, even though I certainly understand where he's coming from. I think he wants the bailout so as not to start a horrible downspiral which will be even worse than before, but I think if we bailout Wall Street, it's just proving that you can do wrong, and still be saved....much like a spoiled child.
I wish I knew more about it to give a more intelligent response, so I count on my Rhodies to steer me right!