If Obama's Father was from say Egypt would he be Muslim!!!!!! Has anyone heard of Coptic Othodox that is Christian!!!!!!!!! Because if Catholics want to say they are the only ones they are sadly mistaken. I'm Othrodox myself and is voting for Obama I don't believe in abortion. But that is their sin if they do that. God has given us free will but nothing is free!!!! Because these Repugs are two-faced they say vote for me because I"m pro life but turn around and steal and tell lies and cause deaths in other ways.

If Obama's Father was from say Egypt would he be Muslim or Christian. Has anyone heard of Coptic Othodox that is Christian. because that would make Obama a Christian. Just wondering how these nuts would spin this if this was true!!!! Because if Catholics want to say they are the only ones they are sadly mistaken. I'm Othrodox myself and is voting for Obama I don't believe in abortion. But that is their sin if they do that. God has given us free will but nothing is free!!!! Because these Repugs are two-faced they say vote for me because I"m pro life but turn around and steal and tell lies and cause deaths in other ways.

Can the mods leave this post and remove post 1

The reason that I'm pro-choice is because I will not tell a woman what she should do with her body -- it is hers so why the hell should I impose one way or another? It's a personal choice, to be made by an individual. It is not for the government to decide what is best for women -- if the government were to decide for women, it would be very sexist, relegating women to second class citizens and pretty much saying that some old white guys in DC know more about what a woman should or shouldn't do with her body than the woman in question. Sexism at it's finest.

When anti-choice is argued by a woman, it is usually done by a woman who has her own set of womb issues, abuse issues and propagandized self-images.

Most anti-abortion people are only obsessed with fetuses. They do crazy things for the good of fetuses, but they don't care about the rest of us. I mean, I very rarely have a person who claims to be pro-life talk to me without calling me a baby killer.

Zealotry takes many forms. What I find rather ironic is that these pro-lifer types go after and kill other people . . . kinda defeats the purpose of being pro-life? I never understood the logic that drives these people.

mmmhmmm that's why I usually call it anti-abortion.

They arn't really pro-life, they are just anti-abortion. Once outside the womb you are on your own.

I was once a fetus, so were all the guys in the middle east. Why do they wish to destroy my country?

Thank you for your post, and thank you for bringing to our attention the Coptic Church of Egypt, an ancient and venerated Christian Church which has lived quietly through 1300 years of "Islamo-Fascism" as our ignoranti would put it.

There is - or was - also a Chaldean Catholic Church, headquartered in (gasp) BAGHDAD! It also survived many centuries until being decimated - not by Muslims, Persians or Saddam, but by Death From Above, yours truly, our Shock and Awe. It is now, to a great degree, a refugee church - for the first time, as I understand.

Look around these threads for the CULTURE OF LIFE. Opposing abortion is not the ONLY pro-life stance. Opposing genocide, suffering and injustice is, also.

I am VERY interested in this topic, and I agree with your point.

I posted on a religious perspective on this matter here. Being anti-abortion does not equate to being pro-life; there are those who are enveloped in the Culture of Death who oppose abortion.

The portrayal of a secular religious party as "Blessed by Jesus" or "Cursed by Jesus" is, in fact, a grave sin in traditional Catholic religious techings.

"All the guys" in the middle east want to destroy your country?

Link?

On the issues of the culture of life, here are some measurements offered by Pope John Paul II:

Whatever is opposed to life itself, such as any type of
1. murder,
2. genocide,
3. abortion,
4. euthanasia, or
5. wilful self-destruction
   
   whatever violates the integrity of the human person, such as
6. mutilation,
7. torments inflicted on body or mind,
8. attempts to coerce the will itself;
   
   whatever insults human dignity, such as
9. subhuman living conditions,
10. arbitrary imprisonment,
11. deportation,
12. slavery,
13. prostitution,
14. the selling of women and children
    
    as well as
15. disgraceful working conditions
    
    where
16. people are treated as mere instruments of gain rather than as free and responsible persons;

all these things and others like them are infamies indeed. They poison human society, and they do more harm to those who practise them than to those who suffer from the injury. Moreover, they are a supreme dishonour to the Creator."

There is no one thing that measures the Culture of Life against the Culture of Death. They are given so that one may examine one's own conscience, rather than to wield some sort of Holy Hand Grenade against those who displease you.



From the Little Rabbi. He never did much care for hypocrites.

I live in a country which has elected to violate its longstanding moral code, and torture, imprison and even murder those who are clearly innocent; claimed the arrogant right to bring forth torments inflicted on body or mind, and attempts to coerce the will itself; a country which has shrugged off subhuman living conditions, arbitrary imprisonment, deportation, slavery; and abroad as well as at home, the selling of women and children; as well as disgraceful working conditions, where people are treated as mere instruments of gain rather than as free and responsible persons

That is the bulk of criticism under which one must perform one's self-scrutiny. One must participate as a citizen under conscience, weighing these immense concerns very seriously.

To believe those who say "you cannot be a Democrat and Catholic" are those who perform a greta disservice to both, and to their Country.

What a great post, Cowboy!

Yup, good post, Cowboy.

When did the Pope Paul talk about this? The challenging items to me were:



In many ways, bodies of dogmatic thought are attempts to coerce the will, particularly when the dogmatic institutions present punishment for disbelief. That's a strong argument that most religions are problems. " Torments inflicted on body or mind" would seem to be a problem for those for whom self-mortification or asceticism is aligned with spirituality.

And the last passage about treating people as "free and responsible" persons, well, again, most religions do not encourage independent thought regarding spirituality; that seems a problem.

I like his list, but I don't think Pope Benedict would endorse it.

They are in love with murder and death. Unless it's a white fetus. They love those, at least until they're actually born.

Religion of any ilk is the Root of All Evil and, as such, has NO PLACE IN THIS DEBATE.

So true. There were about 20 anti-abortion protestors yesterday in the city where I live. I thought to myself, these people need to go to a neo-natal intensive care unit and see for themselves what drug abuse, or birth defects unrelated to drugs do to a human infant. Then, their views may change, though I doubt it. It's also funny that these same "Pro-Life" advocats are also anti-welfare for the poor.

I've found that a lot of anti-choice types are loudmouths, rarely stop to think about the possible repercussions of their actions and don't really grasp the immensity of the decision to bring a child into the world.

I know that somwhere, some deity said something that sounded a lot like, "go forth and multiply." What I think this deity was referring to was the fact that there were relatively few humans then and safety was in numbers. Human society was still organized by clans and along familial ties and life was a bit more difficult than it is now (no grocery stores, for example, and definitely no Mal Warts).

Now, however, it is not only a dedication of 25 years of economic support, a lifetime of emotional support and trying not to kill the teen-aged progeny, a child is rather a big responsibility that not everyone can shoulder. Nor should everyone be a parent.

I'd be more willing to believe people who state that they are pro-life and against abortion, if they were also supportive of ending capital punishment, of never getting into a needless military conflict, of social services, and of just being a good person who doesn't fight, works to end strife and doesn't push the religious stuff. But, these are not generally the types who loudly proclaim themselves to be 'pro-life.'

When I was in the Corps. I had a religious nut job in my unit, he would rail and rail about the Bible and how he obeys it's commandments to the letter, so I asked him, hey we're in a combat unit, INFANTRY, it's our job to kill people, isn't that agianst the Commandment about not KILLING? He said some shit about Raygun ordering him to do it, so that's ok. I said, so Raygun is above God? He got all huffy and self righteous. So I asked him and everyone in my squadbay how many have jerked off in their lives, every hand went up, every one. He admitted that he had, well it also says Thou shall not cast thy seed upon the stone, so you're going to hell, and I'll see you there, shit, I'll show you around.

The new buzz they're throwing around is "innocent" life. They say a fetus is innocent, but people that kill babies are not innocent, so killing them is different...

I don't know if it's the root of all evil. I'm agnostic myself though and I'm sick of it having a place in my government. Christianity can get the hell out of my government!!! These right wing religious nuts need to go!!!!

And to them, I would say, "Um. Nooooo. Don't think so. Life is life and killing is killing and never the twain shall meet."

Or, after Little Britain, "Sigh. Computer says, 'No.'"

FUCK THEM. Li'l Rabbi said something about "he who is without sin should cast the first stone." FUCK THEM.

And tell them to read their FUCKING BIBLE. It's not just a condom-and-KY rest in the nightstand.
FUCKEM.

Now, when we're talking about people who kill babies, are we talking about abortionists? or perpetrators of unnecessary wars?

Per George Lakoff, they have never given a @$#%& about "the Sanctity of Life" -- They just want to deny women power over their own bodies and punish them for having sex.

I think my mother must have been one of the few people who was "pro-life" and not a hypocrite. She thought that abortion was murder and opposed Roe v. Wade; but she also opposed war and the death penalty, and believed the government should be caring for our children.