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Randi Rhodes Message Board > Main Forums > Focused Interests > GLBT Issues
Llydis
http://gaygamer.net/2008/05/draw_a_line_wh...fag_approp.html

QUOTE
I saw something on Kotaku today that really turned my stomach for a number of reasons, and after reading the comments there I'd like to see the reaction here at GayGamer.

Kotaku pointed to an interview with Gears of War designer CliffyB at CVG. The interview consisted mostly of questions about Gears of War 2 and the new Unreal Engine. There was, however, one bit at the end that was off-subject - and it was this vestigial bit of text that made Kotaku's headline:

If The Cliffster Had A Nickel Everytime He Was Called A "Fag"...

So there's that. The actual pull quote reads:

If I had a nickel for every time I was called a fag on the internet, I could retire. It's just the way the fans are sometimes; you do a good job and they'll hold you up in a chair and carry you through the streets. You screw up once and they'll be the first to tart and feather you, and that's the risk I take when I stick my neck out there.

More to read as well.


I've neglected posting it here because I'm not sure how some people would react to the fact that yes, gay people do play video games.

But, the issue itself is something to think about. I don't think, journalistically, there's an appropriate time to use the word "fag." I do use it in some of my artwork, but that's usually describing myself in comparison to how people view me and possibly the wide ranging effects of how all of us are viewed.

Conversation wise I never let my nephews use the word "gay" as a disparaging comment to something or someone. I'm trying to train them off of it, even though their teenagers. I'd flip even harder if they used "fag."

Also: Here are some of the comments to the article:

QUOTE
I don't mean to offend...
but I think you're being a little over-sensitive.
We live in a country that allows for freedom of speech as protected under the first amendment. This allows anyone individual to say anything he or she pleases at any given time. Yes, even things you might not like.
The word "Fag" was used, so what? We should stop using this word because it offends some people? Those people who are so easily offended by spoken words, I invite you to move to a communist nation. There, rest assured, everyones language will be strictly monitored and those speaking anything your regime finds offensive will be punished accordingly.
However, so long as you live in a place that recoginizes an individuals right to self expression, i'd simply reccommend taking language with a grain of salt.
Having said this I do want point out that i'm not offended by your article. On the contrary, I fully support your basic human right to express yourself in any way you see fit. All I would ask is that you do the same for me and everyone else you come in contact with. smile.gif


QUOTE
The freedom of speech argument is always interesting, especially when it's used by people to justify hate-speech.

It always smacks of a ridiculous double standard, like, oh you can't possibly impede on my freedom, my right, my poor little fragile right to run around and preach hatred and blatantly screw over everyone else.

Basically, protect my right to screw over other people's rights. does that really need protecting, is it really that vulnerable? Why is that placed on a hierarchy above the person who doesn't want to be subjected to your viewpoint?


There are more interesting comments in that section as well.
Alfredo
In general I go with the "sticks and stones" sentiment when it comes to use of certain words in a general manner of speaking. My little cousin continuously says things like "that's so gay" and I just ignore him, even my best friend does it some times as well and she does that little thing where she realizes what she said and I quickly assure her that I have no issue with it.

On the other hand, if it's a direct reference to someone calling someone who is gay or in reference to something having to do with the GLBT community and uses the words "fag" "faggot" or "queer," then I become upset.

I think some of us are hyper-sensitive to certain words being used but the more we're sensitive to them the more of an issue we truly have. On the other hand, the more it's deemed acceptable to use harmful words and actions in a general manner of speaking, the more likely they are to be used deemed acceptable against the community.
Llydis
I think gaygamer in general does a good job of mixing gay issues along with video games and such. I've been trying to find an article on there for a while to post here about the trip the guy who runs the site, Flynn De Marco, when he went to Hawaii and faced a lot of anti-gay sentiment in the town he was vacationing at.

Well he's also a total hottie too. But, that's beside the point.

I don't think it's a thin/thick skin issue as much as how Kotaku was using the word "fag" to bring in views/advertising dollars that was the main crux of the article that Gaygamer was questioning. In that sense, I totally agree with Gaygamer's writer on how a negative word should not be used in that way, it just allows it's further use when it eventually trickles down to the commenters of an article. Especially some of the more right wing commenters.
Alfredo
In the case of using it for a purpose or even an agenda, I totally understand and I agree.

Obviously when I mentioned my best friend using the phrase that something is gay, I let her slide because I love her to death and my cousin, well, to be honest, I seriously think the boy is gay and in a few years he'll see the humor in why I let him get away with saying things like that.
Llydis
That kind of reminds me of the time a friend and I called this one guy a fairy in middle school. Well, I mostly followed along because I seriously didn't like the guy's attitude and didn't really know what fairy meant.

From what I gather, the irony is on both the guy I disparaged and I.
Alfredo
QUOTE (Llydis @ May 26 2008, 11:07 AM) *
That kind of reminds me of the time a friend and I called this one guy a fairy in middle school. Well, I mostly followed along because I seriously didn't like the guy's attitude and didn't really know what fairy meant.

From what I gather, the irony is on both the guy I disparaged and I.

I think at some point we all did that when we were younger. I remember being called a certain name by a kid when I was in school, years later I ran into him at a bar near the university in our town and I thought maybe I was just drunk but I could have swore he was hitting on me, a few months later I was talking with another friend of mine that I went to school with and he told me that this other guy is gay too, we had a good laugh about it. It's different today in some regards but I hear the hateful words used more commonly but it seems the hatefulness behind them aren't as powerful as they were when we were kids. I guess in some ways desensitization isn't all that bad of a thing.
Davidsd58
QUOTE (Alfredo @ May 26 2008, 12:07 PM) *
I think at some point we all did that when we were younger. I remember being called a certain name by a kid when I was in school, years later I ran into him at a bar near the university in our town and I thought maybe I was just drunk but I could have swore he was hitting on me, a few months later I was talking with another friend of mine that I went to school with and he told me that this other guy is gay too, we had a good laugh about it. It's different today in some regards but I hear the hateful words used more commonly but it seems the hatefulness behind them aren't as powerful as they were when we were kids. I guess in some ways desensitization isn't all that bad of a thing.


Doesn't all name-calling come down to the power we give these words both in use and perception? It's school yard teasing, and it can be harmful or playful. Some Blacks use the N-word everyday in a playful manner in conversations with each other. If a whiter person uses it, it's considered harmful even if it's meant in a playful manner--the perceived power of the word changes. As to words used to denigrate gays most of it comes down to whether an individual outgrows the school-yard phase of his or her life. For some of them it unfortunately follows them to the grave. It becomes a dangerous word when it's used by an individual who sees a gay lifestyle as a personal threat (usually a repressed gay). The economic threat is when an individual is judged by a "word" rather than an objective evaluation of his or her qualities and abilities. ("I don't want a fag working for me.") As a society we should be able to change the power of words through education. But the true test is in the reaction to the words. "Sticks and stones..."
Llydis
QUOTE (Alfredo @ May 26 2008, 12:07 PM) *
I think at some point we all did that when we were younger. I remember being called a certain name by a kid when I was in school, years later I ran into him at a bar near the university in our town and I thought maybe I was just drunk but I could have swore he was hitting on me, a few months later I was talking with another friend of mine that I went to school with and he told me that this other guy is gay too, we had a good laugh about it. It's different today in some regards but I hear the hateful words used more commonly but it seems the hatefulness behind them aren't as powerful as they were when we were kids. I guess in some ways desensitization isn't all that bad of a thing.


It was a couple years after I did that that I found out "fairy" meant. By that time I was already doing the slow coming out, to myself at least, process.


Alfredo
QUOTE (Davidsd58 @ May 26 2008, 03:26 PM) *
Doesn't all name-calling come down to the power we give these words both in use and perception? It's school yard teasing, and it can be harmful or playful. Some Blacks use the N-word everyday in a playful manner in conversations with each other. If a whiter person uses it, it's considered harmful even if it's meant in a playful manner--the perceived power of the word changes. As to words used to denigrate gays most of it comes down to whether an individual outgrows the school-yard phase of his or her life. For some of them it unfortunately follows them to the grave. It becomes a dangerous word when it's used by an individual who sees a gay lifestyle as a personal threat (usually a repressed gay). The economic threat is when an individual is judged by a "word" rather than an objective evaluation of his or her qualities and abilities. ("I don't want a fag working for me.") As a society we should be able to change the power of words through education. But the true test is in the reaction to the words. "Sticks and stones..."

I like to take ownership of who I am. Perhaps it is different for someone who is black to hear the N word because of the horrible past. I do not believe that I or any other gay person (unless he/she is black as well) can lay claim to having suffered the hardships in my past that the African American community have lived through so I try not to use that as a parallel. When someone calls me a name such as 'fag' or 'queer' or anything else, I tend to accept and stand up for myself. If my life is in danger or I feel there could be violence, that is a different story and I think when using a word in a very harmful way with intended violence to back it up, I think it's disgusting and deplorable.
rowdyroddypiper
If I am honest, up until a few years ago I thought nothing of calling a friend the three letter F word. It was a way of calling them dif or less manly. It was like I had blinders on and did not see how hateful the word was. The funny thing is, I desided to quit using it after listening the the Howard Stern show and realalising just how much hate is involved in this word. Another funny tidbit is, I may desire women, but I am probabably the least manly man one could meet.
Llydis
There are plenty of women who like that quality in a guy. A friend of mine loves Shia Le Beouf since he's trying to do the "boy with scruff" sort of look.

I think the traditional implications of what it is to be a man are just kind of silly in the first place. There are plenty places in the world where straight men kissing on the cheek is about the equivalent of a handshake or close friendship. They're not labelled as gay or anything. It's just how customs work.

So, I think there might be some identity confusion in this country among men because there are a lot so totally paranoid of being slightly effeminate, even though it could mean absolutely nothing in their interest of women.
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