I'm brand new to this board and I don't have a lot of extra time to spend on it. However, I consider myself an active informed mainstream member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. (The "Mormons".)

I'm aware that there is a huge amount of misinformation about the Mormons in circulation, and a lot of anti-Mormon websites. I thought some of the members of this community might be interested in asking a real live Mormon about things they wonder about regarding the LDS Church and the beliefs and religious practices of its members.

I invite you to "Ask a Mormon". I'll do the best I can to respond accurately and promptly.

justamere10

http://www.mormon.org

.

Four questions come to mind, at the moment.

How do you view Warren Jeffs' polygamous community in Texas?

Do you believe your community bears any responsibility in the Mountain Meadows Massacre?

How do you feel about your group denying priesthood ordination to African-Americans until 1978?

Utah is the most Republican state in the nation. Why do Mormons so strongly support the Republican party?

I'll add a couple more...

Mormonism is one of the fastest growing religions around. What do you think is driving that?

What is the Mormon position on equality for gays and lesbians?

Those are all excellent questions.

1. The FLDS apparently broke away from the mainstream LDS Church well over a hundred years ago, so there is no connection at all. My personal belief is that I am saddened by reports of child abuse, and I am saddened that mothers had to put up with armed people forcing themselves into their homes and temple and carrying away their children. I hope it works out well, and that the needs of abused children and minors will be properly and justly addressed, with consideration for the mothers and any fathers who did not contribute to the alleged abuse.

2. Yes, I think the LDS Church recently officially apologized for what happened at Mountain Meadows. A huge amount of scholarly research on the matter was done by LDS and non-LDS scholars. The conclusion was that Brigham Young had nothing to do with ordering the Saints to commit the massacre, but local officials were involved in it. I'll check for a reference and post it.

3. I believe that the LDS Church is the restored Church of Jesus Christ and that it is led today with Him at the head and authorized Apostles and Prophets to watch over and guide it. I believe that God talks to those prophets and so I accept the revelation that African-Americans were not to be ordained to the Priesthood, though they could and many were faithful members of the Church, and some were apparently ordained in the early days of the Church around 1830. They could and did actively participate in much that takes place in LDS society outside of the temples.

That restriction on priesthood was agonized over by many prophets but they had to wait until the 1978 revelation from God before proceeding with the ordinations. I'm ok with it, God is the ultimate standard of what is true and OF GOD, and I do believe He speaks His mind and will to His prophets today as He did anciently. It's His Church. I heard of the 1978 change when I was driving. I pulled over and wept with happiness that now every one of God's children who entered in at the strait gate and kept God's commandments would be able to partake of temple blessings.

4. That may be changing? I used to be a card-carrying money contributing member of the Republican Party. When I realized that many Republicans in Congress were not supporting the things conservatives expect them to support, I ceased to provide support. I'll probably vote Republican again this year, but it will be because generally most Republicans are more conservative than most Democrats.

The LDS Church has no position on which party is 'best' and never suggests to members that they vote for one or the other. As you are probably aware there are Latter-day Saints in prominent positions in both parties. Examples are Mitt Romney and Harry Reid.

"We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law." Article of Faith 12.

http://scriptures.lds.org/en/a_of_f/1

Brigham Young did NOT order the Mountain Meadows massacre. But local leaders may have participated in it.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,51 ... 67,00.html


SACRAMENTO, Calif. — There is insufficient evidence to say former LDS Church President Brigham Young ordered the Mountain Meadows Massacre, and ample evidence that says he did not, according to the church's assistant historian.

Richard Turley is one of three authors employed by the LDS Church who has spent the past six years writing a book about the 1857 massacre of 120 Arkansas wagon train emigrants in southern Utah. He told participants at the annual conference of the Mormon History Association on Saturday his conclusion, "based on the totality of evidence, is that Brigham Young did not order the massacre."

The book is scheduled for release sometime this summer or fall.

"He did not order it. Instead, local (church) leaders in the charged environment of the Utah War made a series of horrible decisions" that "led to the murder of 120 men, women and children, not one of whom deserved to die," Turley said.

The question of Young's potential culpability has "haunted our dreams and pressed itself upon our memories" the past six years, Turley said, as the authors worked with "several dozens and maybe hundreds" of researchers that examined documents from archives across the country, looking for any evidence related to the murders..... continues.

Okay, my question is, do you think it's appropriate for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints to have control and ownership over the boy scouts?

Especially since the boy scouts exclude gays from scout to scout master level and still are able to use our public facilities with our tax dollars even though it's now primarily a religion based group growing on par with Royal Rangers and etc.

1. Having about 50,000 volunteer missionaries scattered all over the world at any given time can't hurt. :-)

When people investigate the LDS Church and listen to the missionary discussions, they are encouraged to ask God if what the missionaries are teaching them is true. The Church is not for everyone, it's a hard discipline, but when people have confirmed by the Holy Ghost that Joseph Smith was God's chosen prophet of the prophesied restoration of all things, and that the Book of Mormon is true, it's such a powerful experience that it's difficult (but possible) to deny. It's either God's Church or it isn't. When God Himself replies, you kind of get it figured out. :-)

I believe that the LDS Church is true. That burning testimony in myself and others, and God's help, is probably what's driving Church growth.


2. Mormons believe that gays and lesbians are equal. :-)

Like every other church there are some members of the LDS Church who are homosexuals. And like many other Christian churches, the LDS Church teaches love for ALL of God's children, and that sexual relations outside of the legal marriage of a man and a woman is sinful.

In our beliefs, fornication and adultery are grievous sins in God's eyes. Those who commit such sins can (usually) remain members of the LDS Church, but will not be allowed into our temples.

The LDS Church doesn't have "control and ownership over the boy scouts" anymore than does any other church or group, or parents that encourage boys to attend Boy Scout activities. The Boy Scouts have been around a whole lot longer than has the faddish modern movement to change American society to reject the values taught by Jesus Christ.

Many years ago the LDS Church saw the value of Boy Scout training and activities, and officially adopted that program into some of its youth programs. That continues to this day.

It is my opinion that the Boy Scouts are NOT religion based. However, the Boy Scout program usually adheres to the founding principles of this nation, so many Christian churches encourage their boys to get involved with Boy Scouts, and some members of some churches volunteer to be Boy Scout teachers and leaders.

What does any of the above have to do with the sexual behavior of about 5% of our population who choose to get pleasure from male on male and female on female sexual activity? (No, don't answer that, I'm here to state the beliefs of Latter-day Saints as I understand them.)

Unfortunately, I am going to answer it.

It has to do with discrimination.

Let's look at how you phrased the next paragraph.



"Choose" is a word choice you used in describing what a minority population does. Sure Gays and Lesbians "choose" a their same sex over that of the opposite. But, it's a "choice" that's hard to make since the rules of attraction play differently for gays and lesbians than that of the average straight person.

I do admit I was wrong in saying it was controlled by the Mormon church. But, it is true it does follow a faith based discriminatory language.

What about gays who are not of the Mormon faith. Should the Mormon faith-based position against marriage equality (same-sex marriage) apply to non-Mormon gays as well?

To put it another way, does the the Mormon Church favor the use of the power of the secular state to force all gays, Mormon or not, to comply with the rules of the Mormon faith in this matter?

You have every right to your opinions and beliefs, I respect that.

I have never been a Boy Scout but I understand that in general the Boy Scout program teaches the principles that this nation was founded on, and that made it the greatest nation on earth. Those principles are Judaeo-Christian.

I acknowledge the existence of a modern movement to change America, abandon those founding principles, abandon God, and become a secular nation. I believe that doing so would cause the downfall of America and the loss of many if not most of the freedoms to choose that we (still) enjoy.

In my opinion you have reversed what's happening. In general I don't think that Christian churches are trying to change the existing laws. It's others who are trying to change the laws to accommodate the desires of minority groups. That is succeeding in some cases because some judges are willing to ignore the will of the people and in effect dictate their own laws from the bench. That's how I see it.

I think it's a little hard to argue that in view of Boy Scouts of America VS Dale. Wasn't it the Scouts' whole point here that as a private organization they had the right to discriminate against gays, and by extension atheists as well? And they based this discrimination on their adherence to and teaching of traditional (i.e. faith based) moral values.

And in terms of atheists, since a number of the Founders were themselves atheist or agnostic I fail to see how discrimination against them is one of the founding principles of this nation.

Sorry, I'm not familiar with the legals. Do you have questions about the Mormons?

Justamere--Very gutsy to come on and offer your perspective, thank you. I lived and worked all over Utah, and have made some dear Mormon friends. We differ on a lot, so I'll ask you, do you really think Joe Smith was of a sound mind? All indication are that he was not. His parents were religious zealots by their own admission and behaviour. Wouldn't it be natural for a child in that environment to come up with something better, or to simply try to best their parents? What about the tablets? Where are they? Isn't it weird that only he could read them and noone else could, why not teach someone else to read them?

By the way, it's not really citing evidence when quoting your own churches newsletter, meaning Deseret News, IMO.

Thanks again, Tap

I do respect Mormons, it's not easy to go around bicycling everyday to spread the word about your faith. I also like the thankful attitudes of Mormons, I got a really nice thank you from a Mormon boy just for taking his pizza out to his table one day at Pizza Hut.

I just like fielding for perspectives because you're willing to put yourself on here, which is not an easy thing to do. I'm grateful you have taken some of my sharper points with respect.

It really does help me gain a perspective in to how you live your life.

So you don't deny then that many civil laws on the books now are little more than codifications of religious doctrine that the various churches are pleased to have applied to all citizens?

Oregon recently passed a civil unions act without aid of "judicial activism". Would you be content to allow that to stand?

In the case of California, if the attempt to write discrimination into the state constitution fails would you view this as democratic validation of the verdict of the supreme court?

You stated that in your opinion the Scouts were not a relgious organization. I'm simply asking about that.

We can drop this if you'd like. I have my answer.

By the way, as others have alread said. I'm glad you're here. And you did make the invite that has prompted all this activity

Anytime I "cite evidence" please keep in mind that I am only providing a link to another source of information, not trying to "prove" something.

I really do believe that Joseph Smith was God's chosen Prophet of the Restoration and that the Church of Jesus Christ as originally organized by Jesus Christ is again upon the earth. I believe that He speaks to His authorized Apostles and Prophets as He did anciently.

By the power of God and using instruments prepared by Him, Joseph Smith translated the record of a group of Jews who were led by a prophet from Jerusualem to America about 600 B.C. The record of the "Nephites" was closed about 421 A.D. and the metal plates upon which it was engraven were hidden in a hill in upstate New York. The prophet who last wrote on the plates (his name was Moroni) appeared as a resurrected being to Joseph Smith in the early 1800's and showed him where the plates and interpreters were hidden. When Joseph had finished translating as much of the record as he was allowed to, he returned them to Moroni who has them in his safe keeping to this day.

Mormons believe that at some point in the future the plates will again be revealed and the sealed portion of them will be translated and published. All we have available today is recorded in "The Book of Mormon Another Testament of Jesus Christ."

Thank-you for sharing that. Sometimes discussions about Mormons can quickly get heated because there's so much misinformation about our beliefs in circulation.

TYO-- As an Eagle Scout Class of 83, I always took their weirdo rules with a grain of salt, my troop was probably one of the most degenerate of all. I never had religion shoved down my throat, nor did we have a lot of god talk. It was, for us about camping, climbing, hiking (lot's of hiking), and commeraderie that meant the most. The guys in my troop are all still close friends today, and we are mostly progressive, except for a few whack a doodles (including my best friend). I htink that the Boy Scouts have to seriously over haul their rules and standards. This whole RW agenda of the BSA began during Raygun, it came down to Patriotism, and they were a likely showcase for young American patriotism. They were exploited by the RW, and probably still are. If Baden Powell were alive today, he'd be a progressive in MHO...

I understand your desire to debate homosexual and activist issues. But I started this thread in the Religion Forum to discuss the religious beliefs and practices of members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

I do believe the boy scouts do a good service, I just don't like how the right wing have taken it over.

Boy Scouts do help children learn about nature, first aid among other things that many children would not be exposed to on a regular basis if they do have parents who are lackadaisical towards nature.

(My secret wish when I get a boyfriend, he actually exposes me to nature.)

I appreciate your kindness and encouragement. I've never been a Boy Scout but my understanding is that it is a legal entity other than a church.

Well, it isn't quite so much nowadays. It should be, but it isn't.

Boy Scouts should be more inclusive, as it does allow children to socialize and experience teamwork and the strength of a group, though they may come from different backgrounds.

I understand that some people who want to turn America into a godless nation find some or many of the organizations that stick to tried and true Judaeo Christian values inconvenient, and they try to make them change to reflect the values of today's minority groups.

I'm glad you had fun camping etc. with the Boy Scouts. My guess is that millions of boys have, and along the way learned values and principles that helped them become responsible productive citizens. I find it sad that some minority groups today are trying to force change on all that.

As I said, I have never been a boy scout, I missed out on that, never had the opportunity. My guess though is that the "right wing" has not taken over the Boy Scouts. My guess is that the Boy Scouts have not changed, they've just been deemed inconvenient to those who want to change America to a secular society.

I understand your desire to change the Boy Scouts to conform better with your idea of what America should be. Personally I love my country and am very grateful for the freedoms that allow churches and organizations such as the Boy Scouts, and the freedom to choose to join them. That seems to have worked since the Founding Fathers.

I appreciate your rationality and willingness to have an adult dialouge about a church that many of us have many misconceptions about.

So if the church has gay members, but they never have sex, are they allowed in temple?
How do you deal with questioning or "coming out" teens? Do you try to disssuade them?

I dated a Mormon guy many years ago: he belonged to "Affirmation," a group of gays who still wanted to continue to participate in the LDS church. I have to tell you he was a bit of a mess psychologically trying to reconcile his sexuality with his religion. I'm sure not all gay Mormons are that way, but it does point to a major conflict that can be harmful.

Well, let's follow the latter train of thought for a second.

What is wrong with a secular society?

Here's what dictionary.com lists down for the word "secular":

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Secular



I don't think secularism is exactly bad in terms of government and society's day to day operations. I mean according to the 1st amendment of our constitution it specifically deals in saying that the people are free to believe in what it would like, as long as it does not interfere with government affairs.

A person, or group of people, can be religious; and there are many religions to follow. Or, with some people, not follow. The problem I find with many people who deride secularism, it's that they want all functions of society from top to bottom to follow a specific religion. In most cases Christianity.

Fair enough. So if we are sticking to the religious beliefs and practices of the Mormon Church and this topic is not germane to that then I guess I'm safe in assuming that in the future I will see no more stories like the following:

http://www.courttv.com/news/gaymarriage/10..._mormon_ap.html


http://www.deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,595075726,00.html


http://www.rickross.com/reference/mormon/mormon306.html

But I'm calling it good. If this topic is to be continued it'll probably have to be in the hands of people who are more tactful than I am.

I believe that "homosexuals" do not commit sin unless they actually have sexual relations outside of marriage. That applies to everyone else as well. Any adult member of the LDS Church who has demonstrated sexual purity over a period of at least a year, and is otherwise worthy by our standards, is eligible to apply for a temple recommend.

Teens are sometimes another thing altogether. :-)

We try to teach our children the value of sexual abstinence until they are married to a partner of the opposite sex. A young man who has committed fornication is not eligible to serve an LDS mission, as most of them voluntarily do for a two year period.

I'm sure it must be difficult for any member of the LDS Church to commit serious sexual sin and still try to consider themselves good members of the Church.

I hear you. But this nation has thrived on Judaeo Christian principles and values for hundreds of years, they work. Why should today be any different? It's minority groups who are trying to change all that.

I don't entirely believe that myself. But, my views on faith tend to ally with the UU school of thought more than any other.

That seems fair enough.

The LDS Church opposes sin and immorality, that should be expected from any Christian church. Did you expect us to suddenly abandon our beliefs or change to reflect the contrasting desires and opinions of today's minority groups?

We consider fornication and adultery to be serious sins.

Justamere10-- Thank you for replying, I love an adult dialogue. I really don't want to insult you or your faith, so, please don't take my questions the wrong way. I have a copy of the Book of Mormon, not in front of me, but at arms length. If we are to believe that an unknown person such as Joe Smith was given the word of God, why not more people? What if David Koresh had the hot line to God? Or Jim Jones? Just because one religion has lasted longer than others does not mean that it is official, it only means that it has withstood scruitny better than others. So, if DNA samples prove that the tribes of Israel are not the American Indians, does that not negate the whole argument of the LDS church? That was their argument, if I remember correctly. DNA samples of Native American tribes do not match any other DNA samples of peoples in the middle east, by the way. I will look for the link in the meantime, so we are all 'Cited'.

You said that this subject was off topic and not relevant to a discussion of Mormon beliefs and now you seem to be saying the opposite. But never mind. I've got to go now

God has always worked through His authorized Apostles and Prophets when they were to be found on earth. Joseph Smith was one of those, He was chosen of God to be the prophet to usher in the Dispensation of the Fulness of Times, which is where we are at today.

The DNA thing never was a valid issue, it has been refuted many times but probably still appears on anti-Mormon websites. Do you know where to find an authentic Nephite in our society today? You'd have to compare his or her DNA to that of the American Indians to have any validity to your point wouldn't you? It is most likely that there were many people living in the Americas during the time of the Nephites. Another group left Jerusulem not long after the Nephites and it took them hundreds of years to run into each other.

The proof of the Book of Mormon is not a secular one. Proof of that book comes, as the last prophet writing in it said it would, from God.

Millions of people testify that God has born witness to their souls, Spirit speaking to spirit, that the book is true.

But it's kind of like trying to describe the taste of salt to someone who has never before tasted it. About the only way to find out what salt tastes like is to taste it for yourself.

I know that the "Book of Mormon Another Testament of Jesus Christ" is true, because God Himself by His Holy Spirit has told me it is His word.

Justamere10--Once again thanks, like I said, Iwas not going to attack you, I just wanted to hear your point of view, and you delivered, so peace be with you friend, Tap

And to you my friend.

Well, you did open Pandora's Box, especially with your claims that we are not (and by inference- nor should we be) a secular society. The LDS was persecuted in the past, as I am sure you are aware: by the same Judeo-Christian value-holders you seem to espouse.

As far as "minority groups" go, I count the LDS church in that group; and by your previous statements, you seem to want your "minority group's" "values" to prevail. You original post seems to have evolved from a Q&A about Mormonism into an advocacy of same. Are you on a mission, yourself?

"Be careful what you wish for- you may get it."

I am not on a mission though I did serve together with my wife on a senior mission in Macau, China a few years ago. Most single young LDS men age 19 through about 26 voluntarily serve a two year mission without pay. In fact, they are expected to pay their expenses including food themselves, and most do.

I was already 22 years old and married when I converted from Roman Catholicism to LDS so I was not eligible to serve until I was retired.

Did you not expect me to state my opinions and beliefs? I guess we are all advocates for those almost everytime we communicate with someone.

If my reference to "minority groups" is offensive I can try to avoid using that term.

I, personally, expect you to state your beliefs and your opinions on them.

Isn't that kind of what a religious discussion is about.

Hey, Tap. I know, I keep hearing that it was different before the RW got its claws into it, but that would have been before my time probably. Was never interested in joining. Probably just as well cuz if they decided to enforce the rules in my case I would never have made it through the door. Let's just say I don't "pass" very well Glad it worked out for you though. It's cool having friends that go back a ways.

I think you have made some great posts here. You're a little more controlled than I am. I have a whole friggin soundboard of hot buttons, knobs and sliders and thread like this touches a lot of them. I'm probably going to mainly just sit back and watch the action on this one. Not gonna be easy though.

This appears to be a very quiet board, at least in the Religion Forum. I'll keep checking in now and then for a while...

justa,

No one comes to this Religion forum to be preached to. Discuss in a lively fashion? Yes. Disagree vehemently and spit on the ground? Yes. Find community despite our vast differences of belief and opinion? Actually, yeah. But we don't come here to "stand on the street corner" being preached to by a dashing young man in his white shirt and tie (for that's what you are doing in many respects).

Take a look around at the other threads in this forum. There's a thread about how Religion affects everyday life. Read the responses. Add your own. Talk about your conversion.

Is it a quiet section of the board? Not if you're listening.

Ok, thanks for letting me know how you'd like this thread to be, I guess I asked for it with my comment about it being a slow board. I'm accustomed to a board with 50,000 members but thought I'd do a bit of boardwalking.

Perhaps I haven't yet discovered the difference between preaching and teaching. Guess I'll go and sign up for some lessons on spitting...

What board is that?

It would be correct to describe Mormons as a religious minority. I would even concur that like other minorities, they have been persecuted for their belief.

I'm surprised nobody's asked you about the magic underwear yet. (Yes, I know what they're really called - "temple garments". I'm not that callow). Several AAR/Nova-M commentators used to tease Mitt Romney as to whether he wore them or not. (I assume he does.)

BTW, I'm going to throw you a question you might not have expected. But I've been curious about it for a while.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_garment

According to Wikipedia, these garments have insignias on them known as the "Square" and the "Compass". It is obvious to me they are probably of Masonic origin. Do you think Mormonism is at least partly rooted in Freemasonry?

I was on the Hannity board. I started a thread by the same name as this one about a month ago. It attracted about 3,000 posts and 30,000 views (check it out, in the Religion Forum.)

I made the mistake of joining in another thread about what happened in California. A few of us expressed opinions a bit too strongly for one of the mods and I ate a permanent ban. The top mod later reduced that sentence to a week, should be up this Friday.

Not sure if I want to go back, but I am used to a whole lot more action. It's kinda nice though, I finished a book today. :-)