OH, now I get it...listening to Malloy...the offshore oil will be sold to ...drum roll...

China!

That's how we'll pay our China debt off? No, it will be BiglOil selling it for profit, of course.

Lets sell our oil here to China so we have to steal it over there in Iraq....That's what our military men and women are dying for.


Where is the outrage?

500,000 disgruntled Americans won't compel the Congress to end the war and bring the troops home.

500,000 Americans screaming for Impeachment Hearings won't compel Madam Speaker Nancy Pelosi to put impeachment on the table.

Look to South America and see how they did it...national strikes. Millions of Americans have to show these bastids We The People deserve the right to live here under rule of law under the Constitution and that Corporations are not people and do not need Constitutional protection..ESPECIALLY if they don't have a shelf life and can continue to grow and spread like a filthy virus...and we're willing to die rather than allow the USA to fall into Fascism/Corporatism and British-style classism

and..and...it's about FREEDOM!...nudge, nudge...wink,wink.

To be perfectly honest, I don't give a rats ass if Big Oil sells the oil they suck up 200 miles off the US Coast as long as WE get green technology here in a big way, eh? But that won't happen cuss then the Chinese will want to buy our green technology, too, and BigOlio can't have that...no siree. Never mind that the Chinese government can buy green technology from other countries like Germany and Japan. They'll be able to build everything brand new and create a well balanced energy efficient country and we'll be living with an antiquated energy wasting, backward country all thanks to our President, our Vice-President, the Senate, our Congress and, the Department of Commerce.

What the hell is wrong with the American people that (a) they don't believe they deserve better energy efficient cars, tools, and homes...and/or ( they aren't willing to fight for green technology. at every level?

The politicians will NEVER save you money. I don't care which party it is...their job is to spend money to make money to spend...to make more money so they can spend it to make more money ad infinitum. Then when they more do re mi than they can fathom, they mete it out to the bidders who are first and foremost, their cronies. For those folks, success or failure doesn't matter. Example: HalliBurton. They get billions in no bid, cost-plus contracts with very little oversight and very little enforcement of their contract with the US government. One could actually, by extension, call it a contract with the American people that HalliBurton is breaking 24/7. There are watchdogs going after HalliBurton, but it won't make the MSM. Stupid Republicans won't believe it and the smart ones smile cuss they're making money off of HalliBurton's deal either directly or indirectly.

The only person who is going to save your money is YOU, If you can save money by going green, then you have to make it happen. The politicians, by and large are helpless/useless when it comes to saving money. It's more likely they will steal your money or con you out of it...they're trying their damnedest to steal social security and funnel it into the private sector via Wall Street were even more thieves are licking their lips and rubbing their hands in anticipation of that wind fall...oh, and if the market goes south, or your investor invests your do re mi in his cronies projects and you lose your retirement fund...oh well...the investors and their cronies will have their share of your money and they won't give a rats ass if you're broke when you retire.

Wink THIS and nudge THAT, LOL..

Oh, and I wasn't referring to you personally..I was just ranting in a dictatorial way cuss my third person writing skills are weak right now...it's 3:05 am, lol and I'm tired.

I have to start streaming Malloy's podcasts much earlier in the day instead of streaming him live. I get so wound up listening to him that I can't go to bed!

I hear you I end up skipping lunch too many times listening to Randi! lol!

You make good points actually that have been borne out over past day or so.

Olbermann did a great report on gas prices and Enron and Randi is getting into as we speak! Pretty disgusting quote from Enron employees saying grandmothers in CA taking it up the *** and laughing about it!

Then today LA Times did fluff article on "everyone" pointing fingers - good old fair and balanced strikes again.

Really if McCain wins we do deserve it or people won't take it if the corporatists steal the election again.

Those of us Californians old enough to remember the Santa Barbara spill would have a problem with offshore drilling, period. The Chinese are where we were in the 50s- pollute pollute pollute with no thought to the consequences. This is why Bush wants to bankrupt us. The markers, when called in, will be what resources we have left.

Res the Chinese...they are really coming along...they have actually banned the sale of toxic products there that they can sell here! No more toxic gas emitting plastics can be sold in China, but yes, they have a long way to go.

I saw an interesting documentary on China several months back..they are rich in coal and just about everyone uses coal to heat and cook.

But the good news was that as the middle class grows in China the demand for a cleaner environment will increase, too...just like it did here, too...the 60's revolution came out of the middle class demanding better government and a cleaner environment. the US Middle Class crossed the line when they came out against the Viet Nam War All the Chinese people have to learn from the fall of the American Middle Class is never fight your government when it want's to go to war. Yup, that's what America's lesson is to the world

That's why there is a Right Wing war to destroy the middle class here...The very Conservatives who claim man is basically evil and needs to be told what to do to save him from himself are the same Conservatives who reject regulation...Pretty twisted, eh?

Res the SAnta Barbara Oil Spill...DANG!!!... The Santa Barbara Oil Spill: A Retrospective (.pdf)

It never ceases to amaze me..Oil is so valuable...oil is a limited resource...yada, yada, yada. So, how come oil companies and drillers would rather do it on the cheap and increase the risk of losing oil? It certainly isn't in the interest of their investors for them to do it on the cheap.

This was all cooked up during Cheney's energy summit, what, 6 years ago? Cheney to the oil exec's "How do we convince the United States citizen to let us drill in the gulf and ANWR?" he said "Simple, start a war in an oil producing country and drive up the cost of oil." "They'll be begging us to drill once oil gets over $100.00 a barrel" he went on to suggest "Then we get some idiot like Murdock to suggest oil will be $20.00 a barrel after we win".

If anyone wants to believe it's a supply and demand problem then by all means, follow Cheney's lead.

Problem I have deals with Wall Street and the Oil Markets over-valuing oil. Much like the sub-prime housing crisis, "free money" inflated housing prices in most major cities. And the Fed was reluctant to stop a pattern of decreasing prime lending rate because I think emeshment caused some to act as if, "See my plan is working". So, eventually if Oil continues to see increase of price which devalues the dollar then eventually there will be a crash. This logic does not support a domestic and foreign attitude supporting a strong dollar. Rising prices per barrel deflate the value of the United States dollar itself. Can kind of see this same logic being employed in the Senate to a certain degree. The logic, for right or wrong, is to support the Banks therefore support a strong dollar. Foreclosure means the little guy gets screwed while the bank tries to retain their capital and not see it dissapating before their very eyes.

The deal is to me not just enron accounting over valuing energy but also the dependence on that specific energy, Earle. Back about oh, 15 years ago, A Civil Engineer told me he could fix New Jersey's transportation problems by building an elevated commutor rail system right down the medium of the Garden State Parkway.

He pointed out to me, as a Civil Engineer, New Jersey's lack of civil planning in transportation and oddball stuff. Traffic circles replacing intersections in Jersey were at one time very popular and very dangerous. Took years of reconstruction to replace the circles. In alot of places in Jersey, a left turn is made by a right turn, going to a traffic light and waiting. Same deal goes if a driver is planning to reverse direction on the same road like no u turns. That model wastes alot of fuel because a straight line from point a to b is usually the most effective path. And of course back in the day, commuting by commuter rail meant alot of delays. I had a rule, take the first train in the station because the next scheduled train may never arrive.

Anyhow, those playing gawd with oil prices will get their day too, just like any dawg gets their day too.

We had a discussion similar to this in another thread. Speculators have driven up the price of oil. They have proven you don't need anything but money to make more. Like someone said the other day, there are plenty of other options open to the oil company's we just need to make sure they are all exhausted before we even consider drilling in protected territory. I'd just as soon my grandchildren's, grandchildren's grandchildren had to make that decision.

With a Lameduck Fed, your grandchildren may be able to do that. If flooding the market proves that speculators are responsible for over valuing oil, I say why not ? If speculators are responsible for over valued oil, then opening up additional fields will have little or no effect on the market. If speculators are responsible for abusing the enron loophole then lowering demand will have little or no effect.

The Saudis said that they would supply customers by demand. Of course. Americans would have to build new refineries to create that demand. Or, Americans would have to fill strategic reserves in a cost effective fashion. Filling reserves when Oil is at record high prices is stupid for alot of reasons. Seasonal demands will probably lesson this summer due to cost yet the fall and winter will see normal demands for those seasons.

Watch Home Heating oil though. Home heating oil and Diesel fuel are refined by same methods. Little or no retooling is required to produce kerosene, diesel, off road diesel or home heating oil. If there is less of a demand for Diesel itself then Home heating oil will cost less this fall and winter. I would suggest if it does not cost less then there must be some artificial stuff going on in the demand and supply game of earle.

An update:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...&refer=home

I'm hoping my grandchildren will have other choices by then. The problem with the speculators is if we allow the oil companies to drill in protected areas the speculators will let the price go down then we'll be shown how letting them drill was such a good thing. I'd just as soon we deal with these people now as opposed to later because my great great grand kids, may have forgotten what all this was about and speculators would be able to try it again.

I hear very few reports in the media talking about the environmental impact of drilling more oil. It has become an after thought to everyone's financial strain. Impact to the geography of the site.... impact on global warming. There is a delicate balance being played right now. The oil industry is trying to answer the question "how to squeeze out the most money we can, without pushing people out of the market, to the point that they change their habits and demand better alternatives?" More drilling is the old industrial revolution and is only delaying the inevitable that oil will eventually run out. I want a new industrial revolution. I want clean energy at any cost. One of the last place we have a voice is as consumers. The progressives that have the means to invest in technology by purchasing it should do so. We can make the market for our green economy. That's where we wield the most power.

Overall, oil price has been on steady upward trend for years. With the exception of few small dips, the upward trend has remained unchanged. There is no reason to believe that oil prices will go down at any point in the future, therefore, I would argue that buying reserves today IS better than waiting until a later date when the price will be even higher.

Oil refineries are only operating at 85% capacity so I don't see an urgent need to build more refineries. Instead of investing in refineries that I don’t want in my backyard, I would rather see green investments.

There are plenty of opportunity's for oil that these company's are just sitting on till the price gets right.

I see your arguments as standard political arguments.

Since 09/11, oil prices have been on the rise. Cause and effect is instability in the Middle East or as some would say foreign policy failures. Looking at DOE (government) statistics, price is way above consumption curve.

If you want to go to the store and buy bananas at 99 cents a pound, that is your decision. I can skip bananas until supply brings the price back to 49 cents a pound.

The enron loophole was semi closed through Farm Bill legislation, veto and revote. Senator Ben Nelson of Florida is proposing to amend that legislation to be more effective in reducing the cost of oil. But politics says don't look at enron accounting right because that happened on the Bush watch as usual ?

Look, when something gets tremendously over-valued eventually that something becomes tremendously under valued. That is the way it is in the real economic world and it happened lately in about 1990 or shortly thereafter stability in first Gulf War. Now, you can listen to Senator Kyl of Arizona that high fuel prices will get McCain elected. Or you can use history as example because Bush41 was not re-elected due to high fuel costs to Americans.

Green technology will lesson demand no doubt about it. Carbon taxes are just like any other tax on fuels, inflationary. If you pay 1.00 dollar for something and add a tax too it, like a 6% sales tax, the cost $1.06. You got less for your buck.

Does not matter to me, if there is artificial inflation in the Oil Industry, green, conservation, or opening new fields will not lesson the problem. Case in point, America is using less fuel today, right now, this summer, so why is Crude spiking towards 140 United States Dollar today ? The answers are in the link provided above on this thread.

An old trick getting really old now is certain parties saying outrageous things so that others will respond giving realworld answers. In my world, they are lazy, trying to bully others into doing their homework for them. It's real easy to correct, give them wrong answers.

I hear ya! I don't know about any of you guys, but I'm so TIRED of sucking the dick of the corporate man!

actually, just the opposite...the bush/cheney plan is working out very well indeed...

secret energy meetings, invasion of iraq, bush's close relationship familia with Saudi royal family, what else do you need?

What is needed is a catalyst like FEAR, False Evidence Appearing Real. And, I may add that of all the Plans of Mice and Men there are some noble aspirations. But, when playing with Chaos there are alot of unknown unknowns.