Look for meat producers in your area who raise the animals in environmentally sustainable ways.
Our beef is never feed grain - they are grass grazers, no grain to fatten them up like feed lots do.
Get to know the folk who raise the animals, ask for a tour of their farm. I'll bet the local organic
rancher will talk your ears off telling you about what he does and how he raises his animals.

If any one can live with out meat and go completely vegan in a healthy way - go for it.
They are doing better for the earth than most people do.

Remember, this is a religion thread. Anyone who ventures on to it has to take their lumps and bumps. If you don't want full-contact discussion, stay away from the religion threads. People's feelings often get hurt.

I have yet to see where people's degree of religiosity, or lack thereof, prevents them from the fundamental mistake of humanity - assuming their own righteousness, and proceeding without conscience. This is a concern known to people of all beliefs, and is a fundamental source of mischief throughout the world.

My feelings are not hurt but I think it's a bit over the line to call everyone within a topic a bigot in one sweeping shot; regardless of or even especially because of the forum. If you're referring to peek, then I understand.

I'm glad you brought this up, I was going to raise a similar point.

I can't defend the parents, from my perspective their actions were immoral. However from the perspective of our society, I'm not sure where the line is drawn.

Last week we had a discussion on whether the law (read society) has a right to require a parent to go through the safest form of birth (for the safety of the child who doesn't have the capacity to argue its own interests.)

This is what we're talking about, right?


Uhmmm... yeah, that would be a pretty accurate description of how I feel about the parents' religion.


The state can't control anyone's beliefs. The state controls the actions of religious people and organizations all the time. Often in order to protect us from them and them from each other.


If there is any ignorance being exposed here it is in attempting to deny that lines exist and they are drawn and revised all the time. See "state control" above.



By your definition i probably am. And proud of it.



Finally an area where we agree. More or less. If a competent individual of legal age wants to die a painful and easily preventable death because it is his conviction that his life is in the hands of the Sky Troll and medical attention is not needed then it's fine with me. And none of my business. Godspeed.

And if people who believe this crap want to indoctrinate their kids with their lunacy that's their right as parents. But parents, at least in this country, don't have the absolute power of life and death over their children. And when something is evil, the fact that it is done in the name of religion doesn't make it any less evil.

In the case here the man slaughterers, I mean parents, will probably walk because in Oregon, according to the story, the boy was of age as far as making decisions like this goes and I'm sure he was thoroughly indoctrinated. Of course if he had expressed a desire to see a doctor I doubt that anyone would have made the phone call or allowed him to. The cult wouldn't approve of someone breaking the rules, even to save his own life. That would be like free will, obviously a Satanic concept. With any luck though, the folks from the same cult who earlier allowed the infant girl to die won't be so lucky.