Bill. What "Change" was he talking about. Thisis total inside the beltway politics. Obama is no different than HRC. Like I said during the primaries, the problem with Obama as president is simple, what progressive ideas is he willing to compromise to get along with the republicans in congress? They republicans will be in the minority and yet they will set the agenda. Look at what's happening not in congress. Who the hell is going to fight for Obama's policies in congress? Harry Reid? Nancy Pelosi? Obama isn't a fighter but we're fucking stuck with him now. I just have to HOPE he isn't the next comming of Jimmy Carter. I saw this s*** mile away.

Well, well, well, negative Nelly. It seems you're surprised about the things politicians get stuck doing.

If he votes against it, he holds to progressive ideals, but he gets painted as upholding the partisan politics he railed against during the primary.

If he votes for it, he compromises progressive ideals while not looking like he's playing partisan politics.

It's a lose/lose situation and I think most progressives are not single issue voters.

What did you see miles away?

That Obama is a politician? That Obama is the same as Hillary in most ways?

Why did you need to look into the future to realize that, I and many others have been saying that since day one...

I realize there are some who think Obama is the 2nd coming, but those folks like myself who now say and have always said that Obama is just another politician well we have been around for a while..we have simply maintained that he may have a better chance at beating McCain than his opponent, that is all this has ever been about.

I understand your concern....I think Obama agreed to a compromise, but will change things when he becomes President....please read his comments....don't get me wrong, I would have liked to have seen him be tougher, but keep in mind, he's someone who always negotiates...

http://fromtheleft.wordpress.com/2008/06/2...acks-fisa-bill/

I agree that he is a politician but I don't agree that he is "just another politician."  As I have said in the past, the main difference between Obama and all other poltiticians that have come before him in my life time is that the masses of people have a toe hold to move him.  He is not entirely financed by big money.  

All am going to say to you is this, if this had happened during the primaries, Obama wouldbe signing a different tone. OR!!! he may not have shown up to vote for it. And just imagine whta you Obama supporters would be saying about HRC right if she supports this.

I don't think I said I was thrilled he voted the way he did, but I understand how you can get painted into a corner.

This isn't a game of GOTCHA! Is there ANYTHING that you like about Obama or are you just one of those hard heads that can't change how they feel...no matter what! Kinda like old what's is name...from Texas....

"Keep in mind, he's someone who always negotiates" THAT"S THE PROBLEM!!! Independents will see this action as one characteristic of a weak leader who can't stand for what he believes in. He's a constiutional law professor for crying out loud. He did this same crap with he war funding votes. He was and is against the war yet!!! he keeps voting to fund it and then comes out and give some lame ass excuse for voting for the bill. HOPE, I HOPE this isn't what we're in for when he becomes president.

Keith Olbermann posted on Daily Kos today about this. I'm glad he did. Made me feel a lot better. I agree with what he said: I'd rather have a President Obama dealing with the telecoms than President McBush.

Suzuki, I am an Independent and I see a defense posture here by Obama. If Democrats look weak on Anti-Terrorism protections, the Republicans will exploit that position. Politics keeps me up at night so I must not think bad thoughts, hint-hint. Deal is much like an opinion expressed by the Supreme Court upholding Habeous Corpus for Terrorist Suspects, there needs to be balance. Can't be the Beacon of Freedom and Democracy while acting like torturing Dictators. Can't snoop on your own citizens without probable cause and defend yourselves against Gestapo charges at the same time. And the Law says if you do the crime, prepare to do the time, that's just basic civil order.

To the original poster --

You are so wrong and so mis-guided. You of course are right about the flaws in the new FISA bill, it is gutless. However, you are wrong in deriding Barack about supporting the bill. The bill is a compromise and as there are only 15 senators willing to fillibuster, it's not like there is a groundswell of passionate opposition. This is the best that can be done AT THIS TIME.

If you'd like to see even this progress destroyed, by all means vote for Nader, or maybe you'd like to write-in Hillary's name on your ballot.

Barack is doing exactly what a president has to do -- he's getting what he can get, and then going to work on building even more consensus. Rage accomplishes nothing and leads only to defeat. Aren't you tired of losing yet? I know I am. We need the biggest coalition we can get in November, we need a stronger majority in Congress, and we need progressive voices in the Supreme Court. We need a strong majority to win in November.

Barack is acting like the president and a stateman. Give him a break -- he's exactly what this country needs!

Peace out.

Go listen to Randi's Friday show and she dissects the FISA bill. Most progressives and liberals did even read it and don't understand it. They just read a couple of blogs on the web like Huffpost or whatever and made a bunch of assumptions. But these is typical of one of your posts. No research, all hyperbole. Blah, blah, blah.

And how did Hillary vote Suzuki?

working together is part of the gig. this is a big country, and pres is not just for one portion. to only follow progressive guidelines would be to turn his back on many others. to get anything done a good pres needs the ability to work with everyone and come up with what works best for most. Again, its the problem of a two party system.

Mr. Piper, you said it just right!

Oh, look. Another copy of an existing post to provoke people into an arguement about the stated subject and that tired old Hillary argument. This keeps happening. Funny.

She did they same thing with the Iraq war resolution when defending John Kerry's war vote but jumped all over Hillary for her war vote based on the same extact information. I think I'll trust myself on this one. Thanks.

Nope, can't change - never ever. Beyond help for transformation. Already has all the answers. Delusions of Grandness while wallowing in oil. Oil fever. Terrible disease.

Hint: W's name should be Mr. Bitter. "Saddam tried to kill meh Daddy." But, but my daddy is not my main daddy, no, my main daddy is up in the sky and tells me the world should be shocked and awed. zzzzzzt . .. . zzzzzzzt - just like that. he he he he, still havin fun after all these years. I will never grow up, I'm Peter Pannnnnn!!!!!

Saying Independents are going for McCain is the present newsspeak on the newsplex this week. Whateva!

Took the weekend off! But Hamoth hit the nail on the head on LA Times and the little I got from CNN made me think they are really going out of their way to make this a horse race.

Is Rick Sanchez on CNN channeling Ted Baxter?

According to this site
http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/6/26/32535/2988

neither Obama, nor Hillary, nor McCain voted at all on the final version of the FISA bill on June 26, 2008.

Somebody want to breakdown all the nuances of this bill? Has anybody here actually read it?

Yeah, but at least he's not a Clinton.

Do Republicans whine this much???

Oh yea, Limpballs and such do whine about McCain.

What distresses me is some of you all cannot see how strong O'Bama is. HE'S STRONG ENOUGH NOT TO PANDER TO THE LEFT!

My kind of guy.