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plodder
The Colorado Springs Gazette examines the waning influence of Evangelicals and why they are no longer a unified voting bloc.

Opinions differ on the future of U.S. evangelism, but most agree Christian activism in the U.S. is entering a new chapter, beginning this presidential election year.

Historically, that's nothing new. Since the 1800s, evangelism as a political force has gone through peaks and valleys. Some religious scholars say the Bush years represent the third wave of intensified Christian influence in America, the first taking place during the Second Great Awakening in the early 1800s, and the second coming with the rise of fundamentalism in the early 1900s. Both fizzled as the movements fractured.

http://www.gazette.com/articles/obama_3776...trying_say.html
Tyo
QUOTE (plodder @ Jun 29 2008, 11:17 AM) *
The Colorado Springs Gazette examines the waning influence of Evangelicals and why they are no longer a unified voting bloc.

Opinions differ on the future of U.S. evangelism, but most agree Christian activism in the U.S. is entering a new chapter, beginning this presidential election year.

Historically, that's nothing new. Since the 1800s, evangelism as a political force has gone through peaks and valleys. Some religious scholars say the Bush years represent the third wave of intensified Christian influence in America, the first taking place during the Second Great Awakening in the early 1800s, and the second coming with the rise of fundamentalism in the early 1900s. Both fizzled as the movements fractured.

http://www.gazette.com/articles/obama_3776...trying_say.html


I don't know. I think the evangelicals we have now are a little different. There is an article in the latest issue of The Progressive which addresses this point. The writer points out that conservative Christian organizing over the past few decades has resulted in the creation of a huge infrastructure...

QUOTE
...in the form of publishing houses, radio and television programs, bookstores, and more. This 'institutional thickening' bulks up the network of social movement organizations so that there is substantial momentum to carry it through divisive episodes such as the current one.


When you factor in Christian Rock and other types of popular music, Christian popular literature, and Christian business and services networking it's almost like a nation within a nation.
mcc1
QUOTE (Tyo @ Jun 29 2008, 06:12 PM) *
I don't know. I think the evangelicals we have now are a little different. There is an article in the latest issue of The Progressive which addresses this point. The writer points out that conservative Christian organizing over the past few decades has resulted in the creation of a huge infrastructure...


I tend to agree with you, Tyo. I also find it disturbing that people like James Dobson, who isn't even a minister, have been allowed to grasp the moral high ground with an able assist from the media. Here's an interesting article on the topic:

QUOTE
Roland S. Martin: Don't mistake Dobson for a minister

Roland S. Martin — 6/28/2008 7:25 am

James Dobson, founder of Focus on the Family, is in the news as of late for ripping Sen. Barack Obama over a 2006 speech dealing with faith and public policy.

My issue isn't the speech or Dobson's criticism. I want to know why in the world we in the media keep holding Dobson up as an influential Christian leader or evangelical leader when the guy says with his own mouth that is nothing of the sort?

more -

http://www.madison.com/tct/opinion/column/293722
LibLaw
With today's Evangelicals I believe it's more about money than God, and if you preach a good sermon you'll get a good payday.
Tyo
QUOTE (LibLaw @ Jun 29 2008, 05:19 PM) *
With today's Evangelicals I believe it's more about money than God, and if you preach a good sermon you'll get a good payday.

I know that I'm not exactly sympathetic to religion, but hasn't it always kind of been that way? Money or power or souls or some combination thereof. Political demagogues and religious ones use exactly the same techniques push exactly the same buttons and are after exactly the same things.
Tyo
QUOTE (mcc1 @ Jun 29 2008, 05:14 PM) *
I tend to agree with you, Tyo. I also find it disturbing that people like James Dobson, who isn't even a minister, have been allowed to grasp the moral high ground with an able assist from the media. Here's an interesting article on the topic:


I didn't know that. I just assumed he was. So basically he's a fundie oriented self-help guru who uses "traditional values" like showering with your son to keep him from becoming gay, in order to rake in the bucks and further the theocratic agenda at the same time. Sweet. You know, mcc1, I'm smart enough, I think most people are, to get into this racket and rake it in. I can talk the talk. Hmmmm.... By the way, welcome to the board thumbsup.gif
jkun17
QUOTE (Tyo @ Jun 29 2008, 06:13 PM) *
I didn't know that. I just assumed he was. So basically he's a fundie oriented self-help guru who uses "traditional values" like showering with your son to keep him from becoming gay, in order to rake in the bucks and further the theocratic agenda at the same time. Sweet. You know, mcc1, I'm smart enough, I think most people are, to get into this racket and rake it in. I can talk the talk. Hmmmm.... By the way, welcome to the board thumbsup.gif

I've already decided to start a mega-church and renounce the whole thing on my death bed, laughing and cackling all the way to the grave.
RealLiberal1
QUOTE (Tyo @ Jun 29 2008, 08:06 PM) *
I know that I'm not exactly sympathetic to religion, but hasn't it always kind of been that way? Money or power or souls or some combination thereof. Political demagogues and religious ones use exactly the same techniques push exactly the same buttons and are after exactly the same things.


They discovered that the simple-minded could be controlled with fear tactics centuries ago. The faithful have been used and robbed over and over, century after century by their leaders to fulfill their agendas.
IMO, religion takes more than it gives.
RealLiberal1
QUOTE (jkun17 @ Jun 29 2008, 08:17 PM) *
I've already decided to start a mega-church and renounce the whole thing on my death bed, laughing and cackling all the way to the grave.


Already been done....Jerry Falwell.
Tyo
QUOTE (jkun17 @ Jun 29 2008, 06:17 PM) *
I've already decided to start a mega-church and renounce the whole thing on my death bed, laughing and cackling all the way to the grave.


You know what, jkun? Your deathbed confession would probably not come as a surprise to your loyal disciples. And it's almost certain that they'd agree to keep it under wraps and fabricate for the masses of the faithful some last words for you that would be more likely to keep the income stream going.
Tyo
QUOTE (RealLiberal1 @ Jun 29 2008, 06:24 PM) *
They discovered that the simple-minded could be controlled with fear tactics centuries ago. The faithful have been used and robbed over and over, century after century by their leaders to fulfill their agendas.
IMO, religion takes more than it gives.


What has Christianity given us? A huge treasury of magnificent music, art and architecture often more pagan than Christian. And paid for by the credulity and suffering and fear of generations of believers. It has given us a flawed but valuable defense of the worth of the individual. It has also taught us that the individual means nothing in the face of God's law and his hunger for souls. It has given us one path to a connection with the universe but has worked to deprive us of the opportunity to figure it out for ourselves. It has comforted us in the face of death, but only if we die believing what we have been told to believe. The alternative is unspeakable pain and suffering for eternity.
Randys
some of the most peaceful moments of my life have been spent in prayer and meditation

but the sounds of charlatanism and lies and ugliness of dogma have drowned it out lately.
RealLiberal1
QUOTE (Tyo @ Jun 29 2008, 08:45 PM) *
What has Christianity given us? A huge treasury of magnificent music, art and architecture often more pagan than Christian. And paid for by the credulity and suffering and fear of generations of believers. It has given us a flawed but valuable defense of the worth of the individual. It has also taught us that the individual means nothing in the face of God's law and his hunger for souls. It has given us one path to a connection with the universe but has worked to deprive us of the opportunity to figure it out for ourselves. It has comforted us in the face of death, but only if we die believing what we have been told to believe. The alternative is unspeakable pain and suffering for eternity.


I don't give a rat's ass about eternity!! I'm not a vampire. rolleyes.gif
RealLiberal1
QUOTE (Randys @ Jun 29 2008, 08:47 PM) *
some of the most peaceful moments of my life have been spent in prayer and meditation

but the sounds of charlatanism and lies and ugliness of dogma have drowned it out lately.


Very understandably so. They don't like self spiritualism, though. They can't make money from people like you. rolleyes.gif
Tyo
QUOTE (RealLiberal1 @ Jun 29 2008, 06:49 PM) *
I don't give a rat's ass about eternity!! I'm not a vampire. rolleyes.gif

Neither do I. Eternal life would be hell. Our knowledge of our own mortality is the greatest gift we have and I don't understand why we don't appreciate it.
RealLiberal1
QUOTE (Tyo @ Jun 29 2008, 09:16 PM) *
Neither do I. Eternal life would be hell. Our knowledge of our own mortality is the greatest gift we have and I don't understand why we don't appreciate it.


Knowledge is the enemy of Evangelical Christianity. It makes you question it's teachings.
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