I was with 538th engineer Battalion of the 44th several hundred miles from Vietnam. One popular fancy airbase that we worked on was Utapao that supported B52 bombers which repeatedly flew arc lite missions over Vietnam. Although I like millions of other Airmen, Sailors, Soldiers never saw actual combat. Thailand stunk pretty much (odor). Otherwise, I had it pretty good there. Lots of drinking and women available for a lot of partying. Thailand was a R&R spot for those that served in Vietnam which made it a great party area.

The fact that the millions of us who didn't see any combat or was actualliy stationed in Vietnam should call ourselves Vietnam-Era Veterans or Thai Vets, which we are, and time will not change that fact. It is very wrong for me or others who served outside of Vietnam to claim ourselves to be Vietnam Veterans. We did what we had to do on duty In Thailand and put our time in, drew pay checks until we could get home someday. We were NOT combat veterans, and I will not say anything different to take away from real time war vets who served in Vietnam.

I see why so many Vietnam veterans Swiftboat so many Thai veterans who claim they are Vietnam veterans when truthfully they are not. This Swiftboating is not despicable in my oppinion because those Thai vets who claim they are Vietnam vets deserve to be knocked down a peg or two for lies.

What is wrong with being a Thai Vet? Why should Thai vets be ashamed of what they did or where they were stationed? I really do not understand some of these Thai veteran war hero promoting egos. They not only put a BAD NAME on Thai vets but make themselves liars.

We have a bright young man running against a Vietnam veteran. Senator Obama wasn't required to serve in the military but we should assume that he would have had the occasion presented itself. We have Senator McCain who not only served his country but spent time as a POW and he is to be questioned for that. He broke the military code of conduct that endangered other servicemen who served in Vietnam. That is where the discussion should end.

We have an election to win and to call someone service to question is fair game when they use their own propaganda to gain advantages in such an election. That war is over and this is here and now, but McCain wishes to keep it alive while using it as a free pass against Obama. That’s where our concerns should lay.

So why the significance? Would you consider a WWII veteran who never left England a hyphenated WWII veteran?

Were you not awarded the Vietnam Campaign Medal?



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_Campaign_Medal

or the



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_Service_Medal

If you did then you are a Vietnam vet no matter what anyone says. Sorry to hear your having trouble with it, every person should be proud of their service to their country.

I joined the Army in 1976. I am considered by the Army to be a Vietnam era veteran, that designation ceased to be given Jan. 1977. I would never claim to be a Veitnam Vet, and neither should anyone else who didn't go to Vietnam.

It really is that simple.

Your service and explaination here are both honorable. I find nothing wrong with your military status as Thai Vet. It should be proud for those who served in Thailand to feel that bond that they had from Thailand. I especially appreciate your recognition for the wartime veterans who served in Vietnam. Did you have access to air conditioning where you stayed in Thailand? How was the food?

Thank you for your service and honesty as well. I find that very honorable.

True that, if you can't legally wear the ribbon then your not a Vietnam vet.

I was wondering though, it may be a matter of conscience for those who respect the Vietnam War Veteran. Just a thought.

What would you call her/him?
World War II era veteran is what I call her/him and what is there to be ashamed of.

Please explain the distinction, why does it matter? This is the first I've heard of this category and it sounds to me like trying to demean someones service. My father was in the Philippines during WWII, never saw any action but he's still considered a WWII veteran with all the honors attributed to them.

No I am not a Vietnam veteran. I was stationed in Thailand a vacation resort compared to those who were in country Vietnam veterans.

I will not wear ribbons or decorations that falsely state what I rightfully know I am. That being a Thailand veteran.

There are to many fake hero's blowing their horn on this internet to make them feel that they are some kind of ace or hero claiming they are Vietnam veterans for attention when they most certainly are not.

Even had one claim a 5% service connected disability from the VA when there is no such thing as a 5 % service connected disability.

Why should all be proud of their service? Some may be haunted by some bad memories, not like being stationed in Thailand a vacation spot where the partying was hard and the living was easy.

Very good CWV, you know what you did and don't claim anything else. I respect that.

Not like McShame playing the POW hero card when most know he was not a hero and a collaborator.

All veterans deserve respect for what they went through, no matter what they did or where they happened to be put. I'm sure all of them had "other priorities" but only a few were able to take advantage of that aka Bush, Cheney and company.

That is exactly it AboutBreath and being honest and secure with one's thoughts and actions and not live on a fantasy island.

Now where have I heard that before. Almost word for word. Hmmmm I'll get back to you on this.

Was there going on in the Phillipines when your father was stationed there? If so, he is a World War II veteran. What honors LibLaw, be more specific please.
Demean someone's service LibLaw? Lets not jump to conclusions.

When you've calmed down we'll have another discussion, I can tell your upset. later.

I have stated that before myself. I also respects ThaiVet68's explaination in which seems very honorable to me. In fact, brave.

Even liars like McShame the collaborator / liar and other players claiming to be Vietnam veterans when they are no such thing.

LibLaw, do you sport a neocon yellow ribbon?

All veterans deserve respect? If they deserve respect they should get it but being a veteran does not give them a respect pass, especially a fabricted veteran.

Not brave or honorable AboutBreath, truthful.

I feel that it's very brave for anyone to lessen their credentials down a notch in public eye. Some people will raise it up a notch or two in order to gain additional sympathy from others. I saw your OP to be sincere to set the record straight as you placed in the description box. That's bravery.

Raise it up a notch AboutBreath? Seen this kind of self promoting veteran claim disabilities that were service connected that never existed. Seen this type of veteran use the "I am a Vietnam veteran and administrator of a forum" to hit on a woman. Also seen this type of veteran belittle real Vietnam veterans and ban them from a forum because they were on to this fake veteran's lies and this fraud wanted to be the hero to all that bought the BS.


Truth is not bravery AboutBreath, truth is a moral thing that you never have to lie about to cover.

Did you ever see any of these veterans who claimed they were a Vietnam veteran when they were stationed in an air conditioned barracks say in Thailand like me and had fine cuisine and all the essentials plus.

Where is the honor in this?








This is how I had it in Thailand AboutBreath, not like this.



See the difference, how can one live with themselves making such a claim.

Again, just like McShame and his hero/POW card he is playing.

'Phony' Veteran Elected To School Committee

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gjgivhs51ac

Prime example

LibLaw, are you a Vietnam vet? You seem very nervous about this topic to me. Just my observation, could be wrong.

Another comfort from being stationed in Thailand

House Girls

House girls or hooch girls were a part of every GI's experience at U-Tapao. Generally, the position was held by women, although there are several mentions of house boys as well. The house girls were comparable to a mom for the guys. She cleaned the rooms, made beds, exchanged linens, acted as an alarm clock in the mornings, did laundry, and shined boots. She would also help the GI's learn to speak Thai, and ensure their experience in Thailand was enjoyable. A house girl was paid $5 to $6 per person each month, and usually took care of two rooms or hooches. This meant a house girl made anywhere from $40-$80 per month depending on how many men lived in each room. This was very good money given Thailand at this time as the average annual wage in Thailand was only $200. One veteran recalled his house girl bringing her two sons to work occasionally. He also remembered his house girl always trying to set him up with some young girl she knew. While not every house girl could be trusted, and usually the house boys were not trusted at all, a veteran recalls that his house girl was extremely trustworthy and even had access to his locker. "I liked the Thai people a lot," he stated, "but they were very poor and would pilfer items for money or their needs." Whenever possible, he would give his house girl extra supplies he did not need, especially things her husband could use. One of the veterans who was in the Army said that although he did not know if it was consistent across the base, but all of the hooch girls in the three Army hooches were married or the girlfriend of Thai Marines stationed at U-Tapao. The marines would stop by the hooches during the day to see their wives or girlfriends.

U.S. bases in Thailand, including mine had this.

NCO/Airmen Quarters
Officer Quarters
Crew Quarters
Several Dining Halls/Cafeterias
Officers Club
NCO Club
Airmen's Club
USO
Base Theater
Bowling Alley
Miniature Golf/Driving Range
BaseBeach
Gym
Sports Field
Library
Clothing Sales
Chapel
Hospital
Finance
Personnel
Legal Office
Post Office
Education Office
Mars Station
Security Police
Airmen Quarters
Officer Quarters
Crew Quarters
Several Dining Halls/Cafeterias
Officers Club
NCO Club
Airmen's Club
USO
Base Theater
Bowling Alley
Miniature Golf/Driving Range
BaseBeach
Gym
Sports Field
Library
Clothing Sales
Chapel
Hospital
Finance
Personnel
Legal Office
Post Office
Education Office
Mars Station
Security Police
Officer Quarters
Crew Quarters
Several Dining Halls/Cafeterias
Officers Club
NCO Club
Airmen's Club
USO
Base Theater
Bowling Alley
Miniature Golf/Driving Range
BaseBeach
Gym
Sports Field
Library
Clothing Sales
Chapel
Hospital
Finance
Personnel
Legal Office
Post Office
Education Office
Mars Station
Security Police

In all honesty how can I in good concience call myself a Vietnam veteran?
Bases in Thailand were as good as if not better than those that were stateside.

Sorry to tell you Lib, a lot of in country Vietnam vets have a problem with this garbage.
Like a patch I have says, "if you weren't there, shut your mouth". Sounds to me like you were not there.
ThailandVet has the dignity to admit where he was and what he did. Personally, I respect this a lot.
You really sound more McCain like with the medal hero meal you bring to the table.

OMG!!! Are these the living quarters where you were ThaiVet68?? If so, I had no idea how nice it was in Thailand during the Vietnam War.

Seems if you didn't serve in Viet Nam, you aren't a "Viet Nam" Vet...you'd be a Viet Nam era Vet...if you serve in Thailand, then you are a Thai Vet...what's wrong with that? Seems pretty damn clear.

Yes that was the typical living conditions of the troops stationed in Thailand during the Vietnam war. Some were even better AB. That is why I don't consider myself a Vietnam vet because I am a Thailand vet.

Nothing is wrong with that Christine but some Thailand veterans insist that they are Vietnam veterans which to me is totally wrong.
Clear to some but other Thailand veterans insist, especially a few on this internet that they are just as much a Vietnam vet than those whose name is on the wall in D.C. or those who got wounded in combat in country. (Vietnam)

Like McCain they like to make off they are a war hero seeing the neocon made this hero trash popular.

You know what, who really cares? Let them call themselves what they want to call themselves and focus on the more important issues at hand.

I don't care if they call themselves fairies from fairy land or whatever, its just a label. I know this is important to you TV, but its more important to me that we have peace on this board without the infighting. I know you have a lot of important stuff to add, let's let this one drop.

Ok? You too Christine and 11Bravo. Let it go.

11bravo my MOS was 21E20, a heavy equipment operator. You are correct on your McCain hero like accessment of Thailand veterans claiming that they are Vietnam veterans.
I had it made in Thailand 11bravo it was not Vietnam it was a vacation land and the best duty I did while in the military.

Who is fighting rottman? Just a civil discussion and if somebody or some group gets upset, let the person or group enter why this bothers them. We can discuss this civilly and maybe come to some sort of resolution.
It all leads up to the neocon hero worshipping that now exists. Why McCain gets a free pass because of this war hero worshipping neocon plan of things to come.

I really do not understand, what rules are being broken by this topic and why you take such deep offense to this subject.

"Hero" John McCain as Phony and Collaborator: What Really Happened When He Was a POW?

John McCain’s been getting kid-glove treatment from the press for years, ever since he wriggled free of the Keating scandal and his profitable association – another collaboration, you might say -- with the nation’s top bank swindler in the 1980s. But nothing equals the astounding tact with which his claque on the press bus avoids the topic of McCain’s collaborating with his Vietnamese captors after he’d been shot down.

How McCain behaved when he was a prisoner is key. McCain is probably the most unstable man ever to have got this close to the White House. He’s one election away from it. Republican senator Thad Cochrane has openly said he trembles at the thought of an unstable McCain in the Oval Office with his finger on the nuclear trigger.

What if a private memory of years of collaboration in his prison camp gnaws at McCain, and bursts out in his paroxysms of uncontrollable fury, his rantings about “gooks” and his terrifying commitment to a hundred years of war in Iraq. What if “the hero” knows he’s a phony?
Doug Valentine has written the definitive history of the Phoenix Program in Vietnam. He knows about the POW experience. His dad, an Army man, was captured by the Japanese and sent to a POW camp in the Philippines for forced labor. Many of his mates died. Doug wrote a marvelous book about it, The Hotel Tacloban.

Now Valentine has picked up the unexploded bomb lying on McCain’s campaign trail this year. As he points out, he’s not the first. Rumors and charges have long swirled around McCain’s conduct as a prisoner. Fellow prisoners have given the lie to McCain’s claims. But Valentine has assembled the dossier. It’s devastating. We’re running it in our current CounterPunch newsletter and we strongly urge you to subscribe.

Some excerpts from Valentine’s indictment.

“War is one thing, collaborating with the enemy is another; it is a legitimate campaign issue that strikes at the heart of McCain’s character. . .or lack thereof. In occupied countries like Iraq, or France in World War II, collaboration to that extent spells an automatic death sentence.. . .The question is: What kind of collaborator was John McCain, the admitted war criminal who will hate the Vietnamese for the rest of his life?

“Put it another way: how psychologically twisted is McCain? And what actually happened to him in his POW camp that twisted him? Was it abuse, as he claims, or was it the fact that he collaborated and has to cover up? Covering-up can take a lot of energy. The truth is lurking there in his subconscious, waiting to explode. ”

“McCain had a unique POW experience. Initially, he was taken to the infamous Hanoi Hilton prison camp, where he was interrogated. By McCain’s own account, after three or four days he cracked. He promised his Vietnamese captors, “I’ll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital ...

“His Vietnamese captors soon realized their POW, John Sidney McCain III, came from a well-bred line in the American military elite. . .The Vietnamese realized, this poor stooge has propaganda value. The admiral’s boy was used to special treatment, and his captors knew that. They were working him.”

“. . .two weeks into his stay at the Vietnamese hospital, the Hanoi press began quoting him. It was not ‘name rank and serial number, or kill me’. as specified by the military code of conduct. McCain divulged specific military information: he gave the name of the aircraft carrier on which he was based, the number of U.S. pilots that had been lost, the number of aircraft in his flight formation, as well as information about the location of rescue ships.”

“…McCain was held for five and half years. The first two weeks’ behavior might have been pragmatism, but McCain soon became North Vietnam’s go-to collaborator…..McCain cooperated with the North Vietnamese for a period of three years. His situation isn’t as innocuous as that of the French barber who cuts the hair of the German occupier. McCain was repaying his captors for their kindness and mercy.

“This is the lesson of McCain’s experience as a POW: a true politician, a hollow man, his only allegiance is to power. The Vietnamese, like McCain’s campaign contributors today, protected and promoted him, and, in return, he danced to their tune. . .”


http://www.counterpunch.org/cockburn04192008.html

Phoney Hero Status

McCain lost five U.S. Navy aircraft.

Navy pilot John Sidney McCain III should have never been allowed to graduate from the U.S. Navy flight school. He was a below average student and a lousy pilot. Had his father and grandfather not been famous four star U.S. Navy admirals, McCain III would have never been allowed in the cockpit of a military aircraft.

His father John S. “Junior” McCain was commander of U.S. forces in Europe later becoming commander of American forces in Vietnam while McCain III was being held prisoner of war. McCain III’s grandfather John S. McCain, Sr. commanded naval aviation at the Battle of Okinawa in 1945.

During his relative short stunt on flight status, McCain III lost five U.S. Navy aircraft, four in accidents and one in combat.

Robert Timberg, author of The Nightingale’s Song, a book about Annapolis graduates and their tours in Vietnam, wrote that McCain “learned to fly at Pensacola, though his performance was below par, at best good enough to get by. He liked flying, but didn’t love it.”

McCain III lost jet number one in 1958 when he plunged into Corpus Christi Bay while practicing landings. He was knocked unconscious by the impact coming to as the plane settled to the bottom.

McCain’s second crash occurred while he was deployed in the Mediterranean. “Flying too low over the Iberian Peninsula,” Timberg wrote, “he took out some power lines [reminiscent of the 1998 incident in which a Marine Corps jet sliced through the cables of a gondola at an Italian ski resort, killing 20] which led to a spate of newspaper stories in which he was predictably identified as the son of an admiral.”

McCain’s third crash three occurred when he was returning from flying a Navy trainer solo to Philadelphia for an Army-Navy football game.

Timberg reported that McCain radioed, “I’ve got a flameout” and went through standard relight procedures three times before ejecting at one thousand feet. McCain landed on a deserted beach moments before the plane slammed into a clump of trees.

McCain’s fourth aircraft loss occurred July 29, 1967, soon after he was assigned to the USS Forrestal as an A-4 Skyhawk pilot. While seated in the cockpit of his aircraft waiting his turn for takeoff, an accidently fired rocket slammed into McCain’s plane. He escaped from the burning aircraft, but the explosions that followed killed 134 sailors, destroyed at least 20 aircraft, and threatened to sink the ship.

McCain’s fifth loss happened during his 23rd mission over North Vietnam on Oct. 26, 1967, when McCain’s A-4 Skyhawk was shot down by a surface-to-air missile. McCain ejected from the plane breaking both arms and a leg in the process and subsequently parachuted into Truc Bach Lake near Hanoi.

After being drug from the lake, a mob gathered around McCain, spit on him, kicked him and stripped him of his clothing. He was bayoneted in his left foot and his shoulder crushed by a rifle butt. He was then transported to the Hoa Lo Prison, also known as the Hanoi Hilton.

After being periodically slapped around for “three or four days” by his captors who wanted military information, McCain called for an officer on his fourth day of captivity. He told the officer, “O.K., I’ll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital.” -U.S. News and World Report, May 14, 1973 article written by former POW John McCain.

“Demands for military information were accompanied by threats to terminate my medical treatment if I [McCain] did not cooperate. Eventually, I gave them my ship’s name and squadron number, and confirmed that my target had been the power plant.” Page 193-194, Faith of My Fathers by John McCain.

When the communist learned that McCain’s father was Admiral John S. McCain, Jr., the soon-to-be commander of all U.S. Forces in the Pacific, he was rushed to Gai Lam military hospital (U.S. government documents), a medical facility normally unavailable for U.S. POWs.

The communist Vietnamese figured, because POW McCain’s father was of such high military rank, that he was of royalty or the governing circle. Thereafter the communist bragged that they had captured “the crown prince.”

For 23 combat missions (an estimated 20 hours over enemy territory), the U.S. Navy awarded McCain a Silver Star, a Legion of Merit for Valor, a Distinguished Flying Cross, three Bronze Stars, two Commendation medals plus two Purple Hearts and a dozen service medals.

“McCain had roughly 20 hours in combat,” explains Bill Bell, a veteran of Vietnam and former chief of the U.S. Office for POW/MIA Affairs — the first official U.S. representative in Vietnam since the 1973 fall of Saigon. “Since McCain got 28 medals,” Bell continues, “that equals out to about a medal-and-a-half for each hour he spent in combat. There were infantry guys — grunts on the ground — who had more than 7,000 hours in combat and I can tell you that there were times and situations where I’m sure a prison cell would have looked pretty good to them by comparison. The question really is how many guys got that number of medals for not being shot down.”

For years, McCain has been an unchecked master at manipulating an overly friendly and biased news media. The former POW turned Congressman, turned U.S. Senator, has managed to gloss over his failures as a pilot and collaborations with the enemy by exaggerating his military service and lying about his feats of heroism.

McCain has sprouted a halo and wings to become America’s POW-hero presidential candidate.

Well again, I find it extremely honorable that you are a ThaiVet and make it clear to others that you are. I'm sure in the circle of veterans who have been to war, they too would appreciate that as well.

I am just blown away as to how nice things were in Thailand during 1968. I would have imagined everything being very primative in it's looks. I've stayed in motels a lot nastier looking than what you've shown here in this thread.

Tell me, was there shops to go to and buy things, like groceries and clothing? Just what did you guys spend your money on in Thailand?

Thanks Thai vet for laying the foundation & putting in perspective what the different parts of service are. Their is a quite distinctive hierarchy in the military & for very good reasons. Those on the front line have a hell of a more intense experience than those doing the support. Especially when the locations is a place like Thailand. Thailand has always & continues to be a party country. It is a harsh contrast to Vietnam.




I knew of this story. I did not realize it was McCains plane that the rogue missile hit. That event actually changed navy training. After that EVERY navel man had to learn complete firefighting skills.
A few of the other McCain flight crashes were definitely questionable but extensive research was done on what caused the Forrestal accident. It was a faulty wiring problem in the aircraft that caused a surge to go through & trigger a missile launch. After that the navy set up a system where a special pin can only be pulled when they plane is about to be catapulted only then allowing the missile to be fired.



um Thailand was then & is now a pretty modern country. They are seriously the tourist capital of the world.