Reagan and Bush have to take the majority of the blame for our economic meltdown; however, remember that the Bill Clinton got to leave office before his blunders began to slowly poison our economy and our democracy.
1. NAFTA is responsible for the loss of thousands upon thousands of jobs.
2. The Telecommunications Act allowed the Media to slant the news and sell us an unnecessary and therefore immoral war.
3. The Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act led us directly into our sub-prime housing mess.
4. Bill Clinton is now trying to help get a "Free Trade Deal" with Colombia.

Those 4 items are the reasons that I didn't for HRC in primary.

I started thinking about why he would sign these bills into law. Maybe it was payback to keep from being impeached in the Senate. So before I completed this post, I checked. The only bill that was signed after zipper gate was Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. That blew my theory out of the water. Maybe he was the best republican president after all.....

Despite all this, he is the one who history will judge to be the better president. Of course, with W as his closest comparison, it's not rocket surgery. Clinton's enabling a ® congress and Big Business interests will tarnish his legacy, but Bush left us with diamonds and rust. And took the diamonds.

That was just the tip of the iceberg of what Clinton did. His DLC "republicanised" the Democratic Party and now we are in a process of reclaiming our party ideals.

Not to mention his "kiss my ass" statement for the "O" man.

Look I never liked Bill and hated Hill even more. They can both kiss mine right in the middle of the puckered ring.

That being said The effects of "busharama" will last long enough for our grandchildren to suffer from it!

[quote name='SickupandFed' date='Jun 30 2008, 04:37 PM' post='59876']
That was just the tip of the iceberg of what Clinton did. His DLC "republicanised" the Democratic Party and now we are in a process of reclaiming our party ideals."

In deciding who to support in the primary, I had to think about 2 different views of political reality. My sociology major tells me that our society has become so imbued with "corporate" ideology and consciousness (see our corporate media) that electoral success depends to some degree on agreeing with "corporatism", at least on the edges.

But my religion gives me hope that the integrity and importance of our individual souls can overcome this economic power.

My mind prevailed and I supported Hillary. But now that Obama is our candidate, I must rely with my HOPE.

I really believe that much of this election is between the "corporation" v. the sanctity of the "person".

Camp

Clinton couldn't get shit done with the Congress, so he capitulated with NAFTA, and it came back to bite him in the ass, even though most of us knew it was a screw job. That was when I first started fearing for our future, he thought he would win the support of the RW, and he was so wrong. NAFTA has been a total disaster, and they get to blame BC, but they are the ones who pushed it through, with the promise of bipartisan cooperation, what a sucker. All of the other issues show his cooperation with the most uncooperative party, stupid mistake. I hope Obama realizes there is no unity when dealing with the RW.

Her proximity to Bill is why I would not consider voting for her.

Were it not for his innately corrupt nature Bill Clinton has the intellect and political skills to have been one of our greatest presidents. But I'm 72 and cannot remember any U.S. president who was more susceptible to blackmail than was President Bill Clinton. He is and always has been a sleazy, opportunistic character who I am sure has done things during his term in Office which were far more impeachable and more worthy of disgrace (or prosecution) than was the Lewinsky affair. I believe that either bribery or coercion accounts for all of his counterproductive maneuvers and political actions.

I should add that I was instinctively repulsed by Bill Clinton from the day during his early candidacy when he looked the Country in the eye and said, "Ah didn't inhayle!" after admitting that he ("once") smoked a marijuana cigarette. While I voted for him as the lesser of two evils I never liked or trusted him. And by the time his second term ended I had come to despise him and couldn't stand to look at his lying face on television.

If Hillary had denounced him and moved out of the White House I would respect her and it is possible I might have supported her run for Office. But as it is, her body language whenever Bill hugs her on stage suggests that she still is captivated by him. I perceive that to mean if she were elected Bill would be President again. And we don't need any more of his devious machinations.

So far my instinct about Obama is 100% positive.

I love how history gets twisted on the ole "Hate Bill" theme. In the year 2000, the Republcan Party on whole adopted a Reagan Plank. Bush41 said you idiots, Supply-side economics is Voodoo economics, no offense to Voodoo priests. Actually Bush41, could not say that as he is a Republican party matriarch and his son is after-all the President of the United States.

So, if you want to blame someone, blame the Republicant Party heirachy since the year 2000. Basically, they have been telling lies since the year 2000. Apparently Ben Laden did not like the Bush Family making a pre-emptive strike on 09/11. The rest is theory when left brained thinktank logic is utilized as the gospel, where did they get their crystal ball ?

Has been pointed out to me that we are in a null-null situation here. Reagonomics did not work the first time around and it sure as hell has not worked the second time around. But you know, suck-up McCain is still in favor of tax breaks to the richest of richest, the ole trickle down theory willfully carried by McSame.

I love how history gets twisted on the ole "Hate Bill" theme. In the year 2000, the Republcan Party on whole adopted a Reagan Plank. Bush41 said you idiots, Supply-side economics is Voodoo economics, no offense to Voodoo priests. Actually Bush41, could not say that as he is a Republican party matriarch and his son is after-all the President of the United States.

So, if you want to blame someone, blame the Republicant Party heirachy since the year 2000. Basically, they have been telling lies since the year 2000. Apparently Ben Laden did not like the Bush Family making a pre-emptive strike on 09/11. The rest is theory when left brained thinktank logic is utilized as the gospel, where did they get their crystal ball ?

Has been pointed out to me that we are in a null-null situation here. Reagonomics did not work the first time around and it sure as hell has not worked the second time around. But you know, suck-up McCain is still in favor of tax breaks to the richest of richest, the ole trickle down theory willfully carried by McSame.

If you want to keep practicing the enemy of my enemy is my enemy, that is on you. I dig chics practicing male bonding myself, it's hot in my world.

Unfortunately, That's all we can ever have these days is the "hope" that X candidate will do what they say.

Of course the chimp did do what he said he would.

truth is power left unchecked corrupts those who have it, namely the commander guy and his cohorts. This is why we must wake the republicans up as to what a true leader would have done from day one, not year seven and still waiting. The turth is that any company can survive a leader who has no experience.

Here are the facts folks, buying stuff from anywhere outside of our country is going to make us weak. If we create stuff and they buy it from the outside it makes us strong. So let us not buy into these candy covered dogshits that they call trade deals. With all of this outsourcing this administration couldn't regulate a good bowel movement. It shouldn't be called isolationism, it should be called common sense. Explain to me how a car company working in Korea paying 3 dollars a week making a 2000 dollar car is going to help our economy? Yes, it will be cheaper for us to buy cars, but it is a slidy slope to making nothing. With this in mind, where was our leaders heads when we headed down this road, did they know they were selling us out, or are they the biggest dipshits that wouldn't rate good fertilizer?

This has been part of a conspiracy that has gone on for nearly thirty years, starting with Ronnie Reagan.

Like the perversion of the terms "freedom," "liberty," "patriotism," "Christianity" and "Democracy," the Republicans have perverted the concept of business markets to suit their own interests for some thirty years. They have turned the phrase "Free Market" into a nonsensical and hypocritical paradox as phony as anything that Josef Goebbels ever dreamed up for Adolf Hitler.

If anything resembling a Free Market were to actually break out in the United States, they'd send Blackwater down onto it, and treat it like a Chechen Rebel stronghold. Republicans hate and fear honest free-market capitalism. These are big-money thugs, the Mafiosi of International Finance, and the term "FREE MARKET" simply means "DOUCHEBAG-FREE MARKET" in its honest interpretation. These cowards would never play a game that isn't rigged, a table that isn't fixed in the house's favor. If there were any vestiges of "free-market capitalism" left when Ronny Reagan took office, they never survived his tenure.

What was constructed was an elaborate meshwork of Executive power, Federal Reserve control of the banks, and manipulation of the Stock Market. You may call yourself a "Liberal," but you put your money - if you have it - into the bank or the stock market. And sucker, the bank is paying a big 2% on your savings. This rate doubles your money every 36 years, pal. So you can buy Fancy Feast rather than WalMart cat food for dinner when you're old. Maybe. And you put your money into, say, Ford Motors stock, innocently pretending that you are part of the machine that grows America. But America don't grow no more, and the game is rigged, so your 401(k) ain't exactly getting you through the "nearly-a-recession" that we're bleeding to death in now, does it?

These boys don't believe in "free market capitalism" any more than they believe in that little pacifist Jew from Galilee. They make a buck by f*cking people, and f*cking people's what they do best, the same as any backwater dictator in Africa. I posted a little more on the interrogation of Ben Bernanke on another site, about the "Working Commission" that Ronnie Reagan constructed, which was designed to put the Stock Market under Fed and Executive control. Ever since Ronnie's day, the average US family has gone from saving 11% of net income per year, to three years of "negative income." The Republican answer is that we have become lazy and spendthrift. Work harder, save more at 2%, put your money into mutual funds that are duds. Be a good comrade, comrade! And support the criminal rich bastards that hold the whip.

All in the name of America.

As for questioning patriotism, I question that of the Carlyle Group far more than I do Mr. Obama.

Amen brother.
I've been saying that since 1980.
Anyone that doesn't realize that we have been in class warfare for the last 30 years, has their head stuck in the sand.

Please fellow randi board members. This may be the MOST important fundamental concept that we need to see all of our socio/economic issues thru this prism.

Camp

The affair with Lewinski although disgraceful was hardly impeachable or prosecutable, yet lying about it under oath was the best they could do in their deep digging quest to bring him down. Once the process started you would think at least one person would have grabbed the opportunity to come forth with far more impeachable accusations had there been any.

Men lie about sex. They lie about sex they had. They lie about sex they didn't have. Let's prosecute every guy who ever lied about sex.

I'd happily trade a president piloting a good economy getting a hummer in the Oval Office every day for one bankrupting the country and conducting wars of choice.

I always liked the phrase coined by Si Kahn. "Public it's Ours, Private It's Theirs"