WASHINGTON, June 30 (UPI) -- The U.S. military is looking for a contractor to patrol cyberspace, watching for warning signs of forthcoming terrorist attacks or other hostile activity on the Web.
"If someone wants to blow us up, we want to know about it," Robert Hembrook, the deputy intelligence chief of the U.S. Army's Fifth Signal Command in Mannheim, Germany, told United Press International.
LINK
Cute, huh? Of course they'll let the mass assassins to hit us again...just to terrorize us like they did on 9/11.
Police State is Here, Folks! Don't even doubt it.
Full Version: U.S. military to patrol Internet
QUOTE (Morgan @ Jul 1 2008, 05:14 PM) 
WASHINGTON, June 30 (UPI) -- The U.S. military is looking for a contractor to patrol cyberspace, watching for warning signs of forthcoming terrorist attacks or other hostile activity on the Web.
"If someone wants to blow us up, we want to know about it," Robert Hembrook, the deputy intelligence chief of the U.S. Army's Fifth Signal Command in Mannheim, Germany, told United Press International.
LINK
Cute, huh? Of course they'll let the mass assassins to hit us again...just to terrorize us like they did on 9/11.
Police State is Here, Folks! Don't even doubt it.
"If someone wants to blow us up, we want to know about it," Robert Hembrook, the deputy intelligence chief of the U.S. Army's Fifth Signal Command in Mannheim, Germany, told United Press International.
LINK
Cute, huh? Of course they'll let the mass assassins to hit us again...just to terrorize us like they did on 9/11.
Police State is Here, Folks! Don't even doubt it.
You really believe that? How is your own life affected by all this `state policing'...
QUOTE (Morgan @ Jul 1 2008, 02:14 PM)
WASHINGTON, June 30 (UPI) -- The U.S. military is looking for a contractor to patrol cyberspace, watching for warning signs of forthcoming terrorist attacks or other hostile activity on the Web.
"If someone wants to blow us up, we want to know about it," Robert Hembrook, the deputy intelligence chief of the U.S. Army's Fifth Signal Command in Mannheim, Germany, told United Press International.
LINK
Cute, huh? Of course they'll let the mass assassins to hit us again...just to terrorize us like they did on 9/11.
Police State is Here, Folks! Don't even doubt it.
"If someone wants to blow us up, we want to know about it," Robert Hembrook, the deputy intelligence chief of the U.S. Army's Fifth Signal Command in Mannheim, Germany, told United Press International.
LINK
Cute, huh? Of course they'll let the mass assassins to hit us again...just to terrorize us like they did on 9/11.
Police State is Here, Folks! Don't even doubt it.
I kinda already assumed they had been doing this for years...If I was working for the security of this country in an official capacity - I would do the same thing.
I hope the military is here right now - reading everything we write. Keep up the good work folks! Vote Obama in November!
(Edit: Forgot to explicitly state my point: The internet is PUBLIC. )
QUOTE (Hamoth @ Jul 1 2008, 04:24 PM)
I kinda already assumed they had been doing this for years...If I was working for the security of this country in an official capacity - I would do the same thing.
I hope the military is here right now - reading everything we write. Keep up the good work folks! Vote Obama in November!
(Edit: Forgot to explicitly state my point: The internet is PUBLIC. )
I hope the military is here right now - reading everything we write. Keep up the good work folks! Vote Obama in November!
(Edit: Forgot to explicitly state my point: The internet is PUBLIC. )
Yeah- uh, the web is public, but not phone calls. That's why I end all my phone calls with an adolescent "Fuck Bush." I know he's listening.
QUOTE (Mayoria @ Jul 1 2008, 02:20 PM)
You really believe that? How is your own life affected by all this `state policing'...Do you believe that the bush administration didnt spy on americans, possibly political opponents?
Dont you think the same person who would frame a Democratic Governor and have him imprisoned while he was innocent, simply because he (rove) couldnt beat him in an election, dont you believe that same person (rove and his friends) would spy on political opponents the way nixon did? do you know who trained rove?
QUOTE (Randys @ Jul 1 2008, 05:32 PM)
Do you believe that the bush administration didnt spy on americans, possibly political opponents?
Dont you think the same person who would frame a Democratic Governor and have him imprisoned while he was innocent, simply because he (rove) couldnt beat him in an election, dont you believe that same person (rove and his friends) would spy on political opponents the way nixon did? do you know who trained rove?
Dont you think the same person who would frame a Democratic Governor and have him imprisoned while he was innocent, simply because he (rove) couldnt beat him in an election, dont you believe that same person (rove and his friends) would spy on political opponents the way nixon did? do you know who trained rove?
Randys; of course I believe that the government spied on americans and political opponents. I believe they always have.
I believe that people will always do what they CAN; because they can.
However, I truly believe they can do LESS than ever before in history because we, the people will know.
It's the same old story, Randys - we agree, but your cup is empty and filled only with doom, gloom, anger & resentment.
QUOTE (Mayoria @ Jul 1 2008, 02:20 PM)
You really believe that? How is your own life affected by all this `state policing'...no hay razn, solamente justificaciones
Wow, now they are looking for someone to sit in the room of all that trunking equipment in San Francisco, wow, and all of that Patriot Act will now be action, perhaps we can put an illegal in there getting 50 bucks a day. We can translate it into Spanish but he wont be able to read that either. The whole thing will run the taxpayers about a billion dollars and make lots of our officials better off in their retirement. By the time this crap is done, the Chinese will be able to walk in to a turn key empire. That is if we don't nuke the planet in the next 6 months. This whole situation is a damn Stephen King movie.
I can't help thinking that the ordinary person, while being constantly monitored, has little to fear. The Party is only verifying the behavior of other Party members and opponents with a little power. I think there's two levels of "people" that the Party is interested in. From George Orwell's 1984:
'Smith!' yelled a voice from the telescreen. '6079 Smith W.! Hands out of
pockets in the cells!'
He sat still again, his hands crossed on his knee. Before being brought
here he had been taken to another place which must have been an ordinary
prison or a temporary lock-up used by the patrols. He did not know how
long he had been there; some hours at any rate; with no clocks and no
daylight it was hard to gauge the time. It was a noisy, evil-smelling
place. They had put him into a cell similar to the one he was now in,
but filthily dirty and at all times crowded by ten or fifteen people. The
majority of them were common criminals, but there were a few political
prisoners among them. He had sat silent against the wall, jostled by dirty
bodies, too preoccupied by fear and the pain in his belly to take much
interest in his surroundings, but still noticing the astonishing difference
in demeanour between the Party prisoners and the others. The Party
prisoners were always silent and terrified, but the ordinary criminals
seemed to care nothing for anybody. They yelled insults at the guards,
fought back fiercely when their belongings were impounded, wrote obscene
words on the floor, ate smuggled food which they produced from mysterious
hiding-places in their clothes, and even shouted down the telescreen when
it tried to restore order. On the other hand some of them seemed to be on
good terms with the guards, called them by nicknames, and tried to wheedle
cigarettes through the spyhole in the door. The guards, too, treated the
common criminals with a certain forbearance, even when they had to handle
them roughly. There was much talk about the forced-labour camps to which
most of the prisoners expected to be sent. It was 'all right' in the
camps, he gathered, so long as you had good contacts and knew the ropes.
There was bribery, favouritism, and racketeering of every kind, there was
homosexuality and prostitution, there was even illicit alcohol distilled
from potatoes. The positions of trust were given only to the common
criminals, especially the gangsters and the murderers, who formed a sort
of aristocracy. All the dirty jobs were done by the politicals.
There was a constant come-and-go of prisoners of every description:
drug-peddlers, thieves, bandits, black-marketeers, drunks, prostitutes.
Some of the drunks were so violent that the other prisoners had to combine
to suppress them. An enormous wreck of a woman, aged about sixty, with
great tumbling breasts and thick coils of white hair which had come down
in her struggles, was carried in, kicking and shouting, by four guards,
who had hold of her one at each corner. They wrenched off the boots with
which she had been trying to kick them, and dumped her down across
Winston's lap, almost breaking his thigh-bones. The woman hoisted herself
upright and followed them out with a yell of 'F---- bastards!' Then,
noticing that she was sitting on something uneven, she slid off Winston's
knees on to the bench.
'Beg pardon, dearie,' she said. 'I wouldn't 'a sat on you, only the buggers
put me there. They dono 'ow to treat a lady, do they?' She paused, patted
her breast, and belched. 'Pardon,' she said, 'I ain't meself, quite.'
She leant forward and vomited copiously on the floor.
'Thass better,' she said, leaning back with closed eyes. 'Never keep it
down, thass what I say. Get it up while it's fresh on your stomach, like.'
She revived, turned to have another look at Winston and seemed immediately
to take a fancy to him. She put a vast arm round his shoulder and drew him
towards her, breathing beer and vomit into his face.
'Wass your name, dearie?' she said.
'Smith,' said Winston.
'Smith?' said the woman. 'Thass funny. My name's Smith too. Why,' she
added sentimentally, 'I might be your mother!'
She might, thought Winston, be his mother. She was about the right age and
physique, and it was probable that people changed somewhat after twenty
years in a forced-labour camp.
No one else had spoken to him. To a surprising extent the ordinary
criminals ignored the Party prisoners. 'The polITS,' they called them,
with a sort of uninterested contempt. The Party prisoners seemed terrified
of speaking to anybody, and above all of speaking to one another. Only
once, when two Party members, both women, were pressed close together on
the bench, he overheard amid the din of voices a few hurriedly-whispered
words; and in particular a reference to something called 'room one-oh-one',
which he did not understand.
'Smith!' yelled a voice from the telescreen. '6079 Smith W.! Hands out of
pockets in the cells!'
He sat still again, his hands crossed on his knee. Before being brought
here he had been taken to another place which must have been an ordinary
prison or a temporary lock-up used by the patrols. He did not know how
long he had been there; some hours at any rate; with no clocks and no
daylight it was hard to gauge the time. It was a noisy, evil-smelling
place. They had put him into a cell similar to the one he was now in,
but filthily dirty and at all times crowded by ten or fifteen people. The
majority of them were common criminals, but there were a few political
prisoners among them. He had sat silent against the wall, jostled by dirty
bodies, too preoccupied by fear and the pain in his belly to take much
interest in his surroundings, but still noticing the astonishing difference
in demeanour between the Party prisoners and the others. The Party
prisoners were always silent and terrified, but the ordinary criminals
seemed to care nothing for anybody. They yelled insults at the guards,
fought back fiercely when their belongings were impounded, wrote obscene
words on the floor, ate smuggled food which they produced from mysterious
hiding-places in their clothes, and even shouted down the telescreen when
it tried to restore order. On the other hand some of them seemed to be on
good terms with the guards, called them by nicknames, and tried to wheedle
cigarettes through the spyhole in the door. The guards, too, treated the
common criminals with a certain forbearance, even when they had to handle
them roughly. There was much talk about the forced-labour camps to which
most of the prisoners expected to be sent. It was 'all right' in the
camps, he gathered, so long as you had good contacts and knew the ropes.
There was bribery, favouritism, and racketeering of every kind, there was
homosexuality and prostitution, there was even illicit alcohol distilled
from potatoes. The positions of trust were given only to the common
criminals, especially the gangsters and the murderers, who formed a sort
of aristocracy. All the dirty jobs were done by the politicals.
There was a constant come-and-go of prisoners of every description:
drug-peddlers, thieves, bandits, black-marketeers, drunks, prostitutes.
Some of the drunks were so violent that the other prisoners had to combine
to suppress them. An enormous wreck of a woman, aged about sixty, with
great tumbling breasts and thick coils of white hair which had come down
in her struggles, was carried in, kicking and shouting, by four guards,
who had hold of her one at each corner. They wrenched off the boots with
which she had been trying to kick them, and dumped her down across
Winston's lap, almost breaking his thigh-bones. The woman hoisted herself
upright and followed them out with a yell of 'F---- bastards!' Then,
noticing that she was sitting on something uneven, she slid off Winston's
knees on to the bench.
'Beg pardon, dearie,' she said. 'I wouldn't 'a sat on you, only the buggers
put me there. They dono 'ow to treat a lady, do they?' She paused, patted
her breast, and belched. 'Pardon,' she said, 'I ain't meself, quite.'
She leant forward and vomited copiously on the floor.
'Thass better,' she said, leaning back with closed eyes. 'Never keep it
down, thass what I say. Get it up while it's fresh on your stomach, like.'
She revived, turned to have another look at Winston and seemed immediately
to take a fancy to him. She put a vast arm round his shoulder and drew him
towards her, breathing beer and vomit into his face.
'Wass your name, dearie?' she said.
'Smith,' said Winston.
'Smith?' said the woman. 'Thass funny. My name's Smith too. Why,' she
added sentimentally, 'I might be your mother!'
She might, thought Winston, be his mother. She was about the right age and
physique, and it was probable that people changed somewhat after twenty
years in a forced-labour camp.
No one else had spoken to him. To a surprising extent the ordinary
criminals ignored the Party prisoners. 'The polITS,' they called them,
with a sort of uninterested contempt. The Party prisoners seemed terrified
of speaking to anybody, and above all of speaking to one another. Only
once, when two Party members, both women, were pressed close together on
the bench, he overheard amid the din of voices a few hurriedly-whispered
words; and in particular a reference to something called 'room one-oh-one',
which he did not understand.
QUOTE (Mayoria @ Jul 1 2008, 02:39 PM)
It's the same old story, Randys - we agree, but your cup is empty AND filled only with doom, gloom, anger & resentment.
Err..so which is it? Empty or filled? Half empty? Half full?
I guess you're right...en tu mundo, s la realidad no existe..
First of all, DON"T REENLIST. There only screwing you and the only soldiers they care about are the honored dead we're not allowed to see.
As far as warrantless wiretaps, screw it. Leave them in place until after January and target Republicans for corruption trials. Can you say Target-Rich Environment?
It seems that payback truly is a bitch. We all but exterminate native people to steal the land and now the Chinese are doing it to us. You gotta admire the wily Asian. We'll all be evicted to Harbin where, like LA, they don't like to breathe anything they can't see.
As far as warrantless wiretaps, screw it. Leave them in place until after January and target Republicans for corruption trials. Can you say Target-Rich Environment?
It seems that payback truly is a bitch. We all but exterminate native people to steal the land and now the Chinese are doing it to us. You gotta admire the wily Asian. We'll all be evicted to Harbin where, like LA, they don't like to breathe anything they can't see.
QUOTE
I can't help thinking that the ordinary person, while being constantly monitored, has little to fear. The Party is only verifying the behavior of other Party members and opponents with a little power. I think there's two levels of "people" that the Party is interested in. From George Orwell's 1984:
ER...
I can't help thinking that the ordinary person, while constantly posting on the internet, has little to fear. The "gubnit" is only scanning for keywords and reading public messages.
This isn't about private intrusion.
QUOTE (Ishmael @ Jul 1 2008, 04:55 PM)
...
It seems that payback truly is a bitch. We all but exterminate native people to steal the land and now the Chinese are doing it to us. ...
It seems that payback truly is a bitch. We all but exterminate native people to steal the land and now the Chinese are doing it to us. ...
You see what I see.
Regardless, there's little they can do besides what George Orwell says.
QUOTE (martsmart @ Jul 1 2008, 05:53 PM)
Err..so which is it? Empty or filled? Half empty? Half full?
I guess you're right...en tu mundo, s la realidad no existe..
I guess you're right...en tu mundo, s la realidad no existe..
pero usted no es randys y sus comentarios estn de ningún inters a m
After some time, Winston is transferred to a more comfortable room and the torture eases. He dreams contentedly of Julia, his mother, and OBrien in the Golden Country. He gains weight and is allowed to write on a small slate. He comes to the conclusion that he was foolish to oppose the Party alone, and tries to make himself believe in Party slogans. He writes on his slate FREEDOM IS SLAVERY, TWO AND TWO MAKE FIVE, and GOD IS POWER.
One day, in a sudden, passionate fit of misery, Winston screams out Julias name many times, terrifying himself. Though he knows that crying out in this way will lead OBrien to torture him, he realizes his deep desire to continue hating the Party. He tries to bottle up his hatred so that even he will not recognize it. Therefore, when the Party kills him, he will die hating Big Brothera personal victory. But he cannot hide his feelings. When OBrien arrives with the guards, Winston tells him that he hates Big Brother. OBrien replies that obeying Big Brother is not sufficientWinston must learn to love him. OBrien then instructs the guards to take Winston to Room 101.
One day, in a sudden, passionate fit of misery, Winston screams out Julias name many times, terrifying himself. Though he knows that crying out in this way will lead OBrien to torture him, he realizes his deep desire to continue hating the Party. He tries to bottle up his hatred so that even he will not recognize it. Therefore, when the Party kills him, he will die hating Big Brothera personal victory. But he cannot hide his feelings. When OBrien arrives with the guards, Winston tells him that he hates Big Brother. OBrien replies that obeying Big Brother is not sufficientWinston must learn to love him. OBrien then instructs the guards to take Winston to Room 101.
QUOTE (Mayoria @ Jul 1 2008, 02:39 PM)
It's the same old story, Randys - we agree, but your cup is empty and filled only with doom, gloom, anger & resentment.
you couldnt be more wrong about the cup, I am happy to report...I see injustice and I speak about it as Lincoln demands I do...dont confuse wisdom with pessimism, they are not the same
I am the first one in the morning to say good morning to everyone and to be thankful I am alive...dont know about you but I have already had one heart attack, had one son survive two wars, having survived the 60's/70's and some Vietnam era military service of my own as well...
have managed to stay alive long enough to see two grandchildren born, and have created a rather comfortable world to live in...no, I see the cup as half full, in fact, if I wake up tomorrow it will be completely full...
This spying is a waste of time and money.
QUOTE (Mayoria @ Jul 1 2008, 02:59 PM)
pero usted no es randys y sus comentarios estn de ningún inters a m
lol
OK... it's either 'sus comentarios no son de ningun inters (para m)' OR 'sus comentarios no me interesan (a m)'.
Please learn Spanish.
Thank you.
QUOTE (Randys @ Jul 1 2008, 05:08 PM)
you couldnt be more wrong about the cup, I am happy to report...I see injustice and I speak about it as Lincoln demands I do...dont confuse wisdom with pessimism, they are not the same
I am the first one in the morning to say good morning to everyone and to be thankful I am alive...dont know about you but I have already had one heart attack, had one son survive two wars, having survived the 60's/70's and some Vietnam era military service of my own as well...
have managed to stay alive long enough to see two grandchildren born, and have created a rather comfortable world to live in...no, I see the cup as half full, in fact, if I wake up tomorrow it will be completely full...
I am the first one in the morning to say good morning to everyone and to be thankful I am alive...dont know about you but I have already had one heart attack, had one son survive two wars, having survived the 60's/70's and some Vietnam era military service of my own as well...
have managed to stay alive long enough to see two grandchildren born, and have created a rather comfortable world to live in...no, I see the cup as half full, in fact, if I wake up tomorrow it will be completely full...
Poetry in motion
QUOTE (Mayoria @ Jul 1 2008, 02:20 PM)
You really believe that? How is your own life affected by all this `state policing'...My Constitutional Right to Privacy is violated by it. Why do you hate America so much?
QUOTE (5by5 @ Jul 2 2008, 08:23 AM)
My Constitutional Right to Privacy is violated by it. Why do you hate America so much?
If you're talking about this specific policy (the topic of the thread) then how in the hell is your privacy violated by people reading what you put in a publicly accessible area? If you want it kept PRIVATE, you shouldn't expose it to the PUBLIC!
Seems like common sense to me.
QUOTE (5by5 @ Jul 2 2008, 08:23 AM)
My Constitutional Right to Privacy is violated by it. ...
You don't think your comments on the internet is private, do you?QUOTE (Mayoria @ Jul 1 2008, 03:20 PM)
You really believe that? How is your own life affected by all this `state policing'...Well, some people believe that governmental intrusion and espionage creates a chilling effect upon the populace - not impeding one particular thing or another, but changing the character and behavior of the people. See East Germany, for instance. Very few people even interacted with the Stasi, but their presence was felt, nevertheless.
If one does NOT believe that government scrutiny of the people is an impediment, then, of course, the "good" people have nothing to fear from secret police -as every dictator has assured their general population. And in a democratic sense, this is true. It is only a minority of people who ever saw the inside of the Lubyanka in Moscow.
QUOTE (CowboySteve @ Jul 2 2008, 08:34 AM)
Well, some people believe that governmental intrusion and espionage creates a chilling effect upon the populace - not impeding one particular thing or another, but changing the character and behavior of the people. See East Germany, for instance. Very few people even interacted with the Stasi, but their presence was felt, nevertheless.
If one does NOT believe that government scrutiny of the people is an impediment, then, of course, the "good" people have nothing to fear from secret police -as every dictator has assured their general population. And in a democratic sense, this is true. It is only a minority of people who ever saw the inside of the Lubyanka in Moscow.
If one does NOT believe that government scrutiny of the people is an impediment, then, of course, the "good" people have nothing to fear from secret police -as every dictator has assured their general population. And in a democratic sense, this is true. It is only a minority of people who ever saw the inside of the Lubyanka in Moscow.
Hey! Fuck 'em if they can't take a joke. Why do you think I have Michaleyn Og Flynn's line on my sig?
QUOTE
It's a nice soft night. I think I'll join some of me old comrades...and talk a little treason.
QUOTE (GCurry @ Jul 1 2008, 06:14 PM)
This spying is a waste of time and money.
Once again, the government thinks we're stupid enough to believe the "terrorists" are stupid enough to post their attack plans for everybody to see. Like some of you have already pointed out, this is just another excuse to spy on us.
QUOTE (rhodie2008 @ Jul 2 2008, 11:41 AM)
Once again, the government thinks we're stupid enough to believe the "terrorists" are stupid enough to post their attack plans for everybody to see. Like some of you have already pointed out, this is just another excuse to spy on us.
How is it "spying" if they're just looking at what's out there for literally every human being on the face of Earth to see? Spying is James Bond shit, breaking into supersecret labs to gather supersecret secrets. What they're talking about in this article, as far as I can tell, is what millions of people do every day: surf the fucking internet.
Joe Fatass sitting in front of his iMac with a Dr. Pepper and a box of Cheez-Its clicking away at random links is not a spy.
QUOTE
You really believe that? How is your own life affected by all this `state policing'..
Please tell us why you naively believe that living in police state and losing privacy rights won't be a problem for you.
Please use historical examples where the majority of the population lived happily under these type of governments.
Please include in your historical examples evidence that proves when a government spies on its people, the people are safer for it.
QUOTE (rhodie2008 @ Jul 2 2008, 09:41 AM)
Once again, the government thinks we're stupid enough to believe the "terrorists" are stupid enough to post their attack plans for everybody to see. Like some of you have already pointed out, this is just another excuse to spy on us.
I think they are. Terrorists are not bright.
QUOTE (Starbuck @ Jul 2 2008, 01:02 PM)
Please tell us why you naively believe that living in police state and losing privacy rights won't be a problem for you.
- got nothing to hide
- willing to help my government against our enemies
- don't believe this makes it a "police state"
Please use historical examples where the majority of the population lived happily under these type of governments.
- USA
- China (currently)
- England
- even Russia
Please include in your historical examples evidence that proves when a government spies on its people, the people are safer for it.
- USA/England/ - in fact all the Allies in WWII
- Same group for Cold war period
- got nothing to hide
- willing to help my government against our enemies
- don't believe this makes it a "police state"
Please use historical examples where the majority of the population lived happily under these type of governments.
- USA
- China (currently)
- England
- even Russia
Please include in your historical examples evidence that proves when a government spies on its people, the people are safer for it.
- USA/England/ - in fact all the Allies in WWII
- Same group for Cold war period
I think you protest a lot more than you actually suffer.
QUOTE (adamquestor @ Jul 1 2008, 04:28 PM)
Yeah- uh, the web is public, but not phone calls. That's why I end all my phone calls with an adolescent "Fuck Bush." I know he's listening.
I'm sure Bush is personally hanging on your every word.
QUOTE
Please tell us why you naively believe that living in police state and losing privacy rights won't be a problem for you.
- got nothing to hide
- got nothing to hide
Right wing talking point number 1 = short-sighted.
Got nothing to hide? So you claim. Anyone could suggest youre up to no good. How could you defend yourself if you arent allowed access to a lawyer?
In a military police state or authoritarian society no one is given the benefit of the doubt. Everyone is a suspect and presumed guilty.
In the age of new technology, you could be found guilty by associations. Just for hanging out on a liberal message board for instance.
In authoritarian societies you dont have to be guilty of anything to be charged. You could be in the wrong place, at the wrong time, or have something that a person with power wants or do something as simple as piss off your neighbour. Its your word against their word. If they have more power than you, your shit out of luck.
Everyone lives in fear of one another. The rule of law is dead. The people with power can abuse it without consequence. That is the essence of living in a military police state aka an authoritarian society.
Just because it hasnt happed to you personally doesnt mean that it wont happen in the future. You dont lose your rights over night. It happens a little out at a time until you have nothing left and no recourse. Bush has laid down the foundation for a military police state. He is acting in a way that our founding fathers have warned us about 232 years ago. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
-
QUOTE
willing to help my government against our enemies
Do you honestly believe your helping the government by giving away your rights? LOL. Americans have survived over 225 years (pre-Bush years) fighting our enemies without giving away our Constitutional Rights. There were procedures in place to protect our civil liberties, respect the rule of law and keep Americans safe. Those procedures, along with the warnings about 9/11 were ignored.
QUOTE
- don't believe this makes it a "police state"
This isnt about what you believe. I asked you for historical documentation. Ill be more specific this time.
What are the characteristics of a free society verses the characteristics of a police state/authoritarian society. Hint: Spying on your people is not the characteristic of a free society. I dare you to actually answer this question, do some research and post some links. I triple dog dare you.
QUOTE
Please use historical examples where the majority of the population lived happily under these type of governments.
- USA
- China (currently)
- England
- even Russia
- USA
- China (currently)
- England
- even Russia
Wow. Its getting harder and harder to restrain myself from being insulting. Besides not having any historical evidence to back up your rhetoric, you dont even know about current events.
What polls are you reading that show the majority of American people are currently happy living under Bushs policies?
The majority people in China and Russia are currently happy? Really?! Got link?
The Brits are extremely unhappy with the Labour Government, which is why they keep losing every local election in the last year, and will lose the next election. The Brits arent living under a military police state either, but just like the US, the UK is slowly losing its civil liberties.
QUOTE
Please include in your historical examples evidence that proves when a government spies on its people, the people are safer for it.
- USA/England/ - in fact all the Allies in WWII
- Same group for Cold war period
- USA/England/ - in fact all the Allies in WWII
- Same group for Cold war period
Links? Evidence? Reality?
QUOTE
I think you protest a lot more than you actually suffer.
I think you have made a lot of baseless assumptions without having a clue about history.
Its pretty damn sad when an American would make light of living in a police state. Its what we have been fighting against for over 232 years! Happy 4th of July!
QUOTE
I'm sure Bush is personally hanging on your every word.
Egads another one.
QUOTE (Mayoria @ Jul 1 2008, 05:39 PM)
Randys; of course I believe that the government spied on americans and political opponents. I believe they always have.
I believe that people will always do what they CAN; because they can.
However, I truly believe they can do LESS than ever before in history because we, the people will know.
It's the same old story, Randys - we agree, but your cup is empty and filled only with doom, gloom, anger & resentment.
I believe that people will always do what they CAN; because they can.
However, I truly believe they can do LESS than ever before in history because we, the people will know.
It's the same old story, Randys - we agree, but your cup is empty and filled only with doom, gloom, anger & resentment.
Could you rewrite that. I can't make sense of it.
Bottom line here is simple.
It not so much what the fascist pigs in the White House will see when they're spying on Americans, it's that they want to do it in the first place, and why, that's the issue.
Republifucks say that "terrorists want to take our freedom". And thanx to the epic cowardice of the Right, they have.
Religious zealots attacked our country to "destroy our freedom". The Right pissed their chickenhawk pants and gave the attackers exactly what they demanded.
Fucking Repig terrorist appeasers is what Bush and the RNC are. Terrorists say "they hate our constitution". Evidently Righty agrees. So the snip snip of the Fourth Amendment commences.
Why don't you Right Wing cowards just bend over and let the terrorists thrust their man-meant in again. Apparently you like it.
You're just itching to see the First Amendment go too. I'll love hearing you Freedom Haters cry like babies when the Second goes the way of the Fourth.
The Republican traitors in our government, and the ones in the voting booths, are basically co-conspirators with the Islamofascist. Haji says "jump", Righty says "how high, and would you like a half gainer too"?
This isn't about information as much as it's about being too much of a coward to defend the fundamental principals that make this country great.
Those that support "Immunity" are traitors to their people. Simple as that.
It not so much what the fascist pigs in the White House will see when they're spying on Americans, it's that they want to do it in the first place, and why, that's the issue.
Republifucks say that "terrorists want to take our freedom". And thanx to the epic cowardice of the Right, they have.
Religious zealots attacked our country to "destroy our freedom". The Right pissed their chickenhawk pants and gave the attackers exactly what they demanded.
Fucking Repig terrorist appeasers is what Bush and the RNC are. Terrorists say "they hate our constitution". Evidently Righty agrees. So the snip snip of the Fourth Amendment commences.
Why don't you Right Wing cowards just bend over and let the terrorists thrust their man-meant in again. Apparently you like it.
You're just itching to see the First Amendment go too. I'll love hearing you Freedom Haters cry like babies when the Second goes the way of the Fourth.
The Republican traitors in our government, and the ones in the voting booths, are basically co-conspirators with the Islamofascist. Haji says "jump", Righty says "how high, and would you like a half gainer too"?
This isn't about information as much as it's about being too much of a coward to defend the fundamental principals that make this country great.
Those that support "Immunity" are traitors to their people. Simple as that.
QUOTE (captainkona @ Jul 3 2008, 03:47 PM)
...
This isn't about information as much as it's about being too much of a coward to defend the fundamental principals that make this country great.
Those that support "Immunity" are traitors to their people. Simple as that.
This isn't about information as much as it's about being too much of a coward to defend the fundamental principals that make this country great.
Those that support "Immunity" are traitors to their people. Simple as that.
Agreed.
I often wonder if all this "anti-turrrsm" shit isn't a ruse to distract us from the possibility that PRIVATE interests, rather than national ones are at work mining data for the purposes of marketing.
The President of the United States of America promised with his oath of office to ....... I do solemnly swear that I will faithfully execute to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.
I do believe that he lied. He told the BBC journalist that he had to work around the Constitution. Only criminals have to work outside the law.
I do believe that he lied. He told the BBC journalist that he had to work around the Constitution. Only criminals have to work outside the law.
QUOTE (5by5)
Why do you hate America so much?
NO, YOU HATE AMERICA BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO FLAG AVI! JUST LIKE OBAMA DOESN'T HAVE A LAPEL PIN!!! HOW DO YOU JUSTIFY THAT? APPEASER! YOU WON'T LET THE GOVERNMENT SPY ON YOU, SO YOU SUPPORT THE TERRERRISTS! YOU obviously have something to hide!
QUOTE (adamquestor @ Jul 3 2008, 03:51 PM)
Agreed.
I often wonder if all this "anti-turrrsm" shit isn't a ruse to distract us from the possibility that PRIVATE interests, rather than national ones are at work mining data for the purposes of marketing.
I often wonder if all this "anti-turrrsm" shit isn't a ruse to distract us from the possibility that PRIVATE interests, rather than national ones are at work mining data for the purposes of marketing.
And that too. Martketing, tracking paper trails....
LINK
Think were paranoid? Think this isnt happening now?
Heres a small, well hidden example of the FACT that it IS happening now. As we write.
Musicians Friend .com, a well known online musicians resource for musical instruments and accessories also seems to be assisting Homeland Security in collecting your personal info.
If you go to their site and click on an item to purchase, you see a page like this.
If you decide to apply for credit you can click the Finance Now button next to the items price. This takes you to a page where you apply for credit. On this page you find the following statement by Musicians Friend.
IMPORTANT INFORMATION ABOUT PROCEDURES FOR OPENING A NEW ACCOUNT
To help the government fight the funding of terrorism and money laundering activities, Federal law requires all financial institutions to obtain, verify, and record information that identifies each person who opens an account. What this means for you: When you open an account, we will ask for your name, address, date of birth, and other information that will allow us to identify you. We may also ask to see your drivers license or other identifying documents. PATRIOT ACT (8/03)
So you see? If you applied for credit or opened an account, your info, all of it, has been given to the federal government. Not just if you tried to contact someone overseas, all info on everyone. Youre now a terrorist until you prove that youre not.
If it was just about terrorism", why does a site that sells musical instruments collect such information? Are the terrorists going to hijack a Stratocaster and fly it into a building? Drive an explosive laden electric piano into a night club? Maybe theyll launch rockets from a fucking Tuba.
They dont care about terrorists", they want YOUR info. Terrorism is just an excuse.
Better stick to your local music store and pay cash.
Its not a joke, its not a game, were not making it up. The Corporate American Government wants your personal info. All of it.
They want to watch your money, your habits, your lifestyle.
Only a coward would spread their cheeks and accept this.
QUOTE (Morgan @ Jul 3 2008, 11:01 AM)
Could you rewrite that. I can't make sense of it.
uhhh, no
QUOTE (Morgan @ Jul 1 2008, 05:14 PM)
WASHINGTON, June 30 (UPI) -- The U.S. military is looking for a contractor to patrol cyberspace
Is this putting cyber boots on the pc as a fear factor deterent or boots up our rear-ends if we don't play by the gov's cyber rules?
QUOTE (RadioactiveMan @ Jul 2 2008, 07:05 AM)
If you're talking about this specific policy (the topic of the thread) then how in the hell is your privacy violated by people reading what you put in a publicly accessible area? If you want it kept PRIVATE, you shouldn't expose it to the PUBLIC!
Seems like common sense to me.
Seems like common sense to me.
Ugh.
By definition, "the internets" also involve email communications, which by definition are the electronic version of a letter, and SHOULD have the same sorts of 4th Amendment protections (security in our papers, meaning privacy in our communications).
Moreover, what if you are communicating on a "private" bulletin board accessible only to members of a particular group?
If that is hacked by the Pentagon because they're a bunch of nosey nellies -- AGAIN, it's a 4th Amendment rights violaton.
And even if I want to have a conversation on the street (ostensibly a public area) by definition the 4th Amendment is supposed to guarantee that unless the gov't can PROVE probable cause that some law is being violated, they really don't have the right to listen in to your PUBLIC conversations either. You should be able to "freely assemble" for redress of grievances, to discuss any matter you so choose, without gov't interference OR monitoring.
Part of being free is the notion that you shouldn't have to be looking over your shoulder every second of every day to see whether Big Brother is listening in. It's called a "chilling effect". It tends to shut down free speech, free expression, free assembly.
Why do you devalue the very things that make us free in the first place-- namely our constitutional protections?
Jesus, what flabbergasts me is how so many people don't seem to understand basic American civics. This seriously needs to be taught in school again, because clearly, some folks missed out.
QUOTE
Part of being free is the notion that you shouldn't have to be looking over your shoulder every second of every day to see whether Big Brother is listening in. It's called a "chilling effect". It tends to shut down free speech, free expression, free assembly.
Interesting. I think I've always been so chilled.
Not entirely sure it's a bad thing...I'll ponder this. Any good resources on this term I should include as required reading?
QUOTE (Morgan @ Jul 1 2008, 05:14 PM)
WASHINGTON, June 30 (UPI) -- The U.S. military is looking for a contractor to patrol cyberspace, watching for warning signs of forthcoming terrorist attacks or other hostile activity on the Web.
"If someone wants to blow us up, we want to know about it," Robert Hembrook, the deputy intelligence chief of the U.S. Army's Fifth Signal Command in Mannheim, Germany, told United Press International.
LINK
Cute, huh? Of course they'll let the mass assassins to hit us again...just to terrorize us like they did on 9/11.
Police State is Here, Folks! Don't even doubt it.
"If someone wants to blow us up, we want to know about it," Robert Hembrook, the deputy intelligence chief of the U.S. Army's Fifth Signal Command in Mannheim, Germany, told United Press International.
LINK
Cute, huh? Of course they'll let the mass assassins to hit us again...just to terrorize us like they did on 9/11.
Police State is Here, Folks! Don't even doubt it.
What a waste of time. like a restraining order...useless...
Any policeman will tell you, if someone wants to kill you, they probably will unless you protect yourself.
We should be spending money on terrorist attacks not crippling us. We should be spending money on training disaster workers and building a disaster infrastructure...lets be pre-emptive about SAFTY
Sheeesh, we don't need no stinking terrorist attack to hobble us.
All it takes is a frigging bug or rodent to short out a strategic electricity grid, or a rodent to chew a hole in a levee.
I would love to know what relief efforts are taking place across the flood plains from Iowa to Wisconsin. There is absolutely NOTHING mentioned about THAT in the news.
And not for nuttinbutt, if you were a terrorist and you wanted to do harm to the US, would you be dumb enough to use the internets before it was too late to stop the attack?
Personally, I think terrorists are crazy people...crazy with anger. They don't think or act like regular folks, unless they're psychopaths/sociopaths...bbut the crazy's the psychopaths and the sociopaths have two common goals. They want to be successful and they don't want to get caught before they can hurt innocent powerless people.
The military wants to privatize the terror watch! That is rich! And who will get the contract? SAIC? A spin-off of SAIC?
IMHO: I bet the military will contract with retired military who did the same thing when they were in the military...special military people who aren't subject to "stop-loss" because they're connected to the right wing noise machine one way or another...Rapturists/Profiteers...it's all gravy for these fascist/corporatist cak sackers.
Billions of more public dollars going into the pockets of private industry never to be used for the public good. Middle Class tax payers dollars being, IMHO, stolen, for lack of a better word; calling it "misappropriated" is too kind and not accurate.
China will soon quit backing our money, the guys overseas will need to hitch hike home, and the only military guys looking at this site will be talking to us. By the way, I hope Bush's guts catch on fire, we can put them out with our piss after drinking ever clear. Then we can put the rest of him out even though he isn't on fire. So put that in your douche and shove it feds, the same as KGB nowdays.
QUOTE (5by5 @ Jul 3 2008, 07:17 PM)
Ugh.
By definition, "the internets" also involve email communications, which by definition are the electronic version of a letter, and SHOULD have the same sorts of 4th Amendment protections (security in our papers, meaning privacy in our communications).
Moreover, what if you are communicating on a "private" bulletin board accessible only to members of a particular group?
If that is hacked by the Pentagon because they're a bunch of nosey nellies -- AGAIN, it's a 4th Amendment rights violaton.
By definition, "the internets" also involve email communications, which by definition are the electronic version of a letter, and SHOULD have the same sorts of 4th Amendment protections (security in our papers, meaning privacy in our communications).
Moreover, what if you are communicating on a "private" bulletin board accessible only to members of a particular group?
If that is hacked by the Pentagon because they're a bunch of nosey nellies -- AGAIN, it's a 4th Amendment rights violaton.
Emails are private, but message boards are not. As long as anyone is given access, the information is out there to see. "Hacking" is a different story.
QUOTE
And even if I want to have a conversation on the street (ostensibly a public area) by definition the 4th Amendment is supposed to guarantee that unless the gov't can PROVE probable cause that some law is being violated, they really don't have the right to listen in to your PUBLIC conversations either. You should be able to "freely assemble" for redress of grievances, to discuss any matter you so choose, without gov't interference OR monitoring.
Clearly you haven't heard of the "plain view" doctrine. You seem to think that, if I set up a meth lab on my deck with a sign that says "GET YOUR METH HERE: CHEEP!" when I get arrested because a cop saw me out there cooking up my shit my rights have been somehow violated. Putting something out on the internet is no different. Even this message board is limited in its privacy. You can view forums without loggin in, I think. And even if you couldn't, registration is easy and I'd bet almost all applicants get approved for membership.
QUOTE
Jesus, what flabbergasts me is how so many people don't seem to understand basic American civics. This seriously needs to be taught in school again, because clearly, some folks missed out.
Some folks like you, apparently.
QUOTE (RadioactiveMan @ Jul 4 2008, 01:52 PM)
You seem to think that, if I set up a meth lab on my deck with a sign that says "GET YOUR METH HERE: CHEEP!" when I get arrested because a cop saw me out there cooking up my shit my rights have been somehow violated.
Bad analogy. Meth is illegal, public conversation isn't. Yet.....Or is it?
QUOTE
Emails are private
Right. And they're subject to blanket monitoring by the government.
QUOTE (captainkona @ Jul 4 2008, 02:11 PM)
Bad analogy. Meth is illegal, public conversation isn't.
Perhaps you don't understand his "logic." According to him, the cops have to have probable cause before they even look at my deck sign and meth lab, even though I'm putting it out there for everyone to see.
Pure, unadulterated garbage.
QUOTE
Right. And they're subject to blanket monitoring by the government.
Is that what the article we're talking about says? As far as I can remember, we're talking about a specific program here. Don't change the subject just because you can't win the one we're on.
QUOTE (Hamoth @ Jul 3 2008, 08:40 PM)
Interesting. I think I've always been so chilled.
Not entirely sure it's a bad thing...I'll ponder this. Any good resources on this term I should include as required reading?
Not entirely sure it's a bad thing...I'll ponder this. Any good resources on this term I should include as required reading?
Yes.
QUOTE
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Day_in_th...Ivan_Denisovich
The good thing about hard-labor camps is that you have all the freedom in the world to sound off. In Ust-Izhma you'd only have to whisper that people couldn't buy matches outside and they'd clap another ten on you. Here you could shout anything you liked from a top bunk and the stoolies wouldn't report it, because the security officer couldn't care less.[5]
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich
The good thing about hard-labor camps is that you have all the freedom in the world to sound off. In Ust-Izhma you'd only have to whisper that people couldn't buy matches outside and they'd clap another ten on you. Here you could shout anything you liked from a top bunk and the stoolies wouldn't report it, because the security officer couldn't care less.[5]
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich
QUOTE (RadioactiveMan @ Jul 4 2008, 10:52 AM)
Emails are private, but message boards are not.
Do you even understand the concept of a network? Encryption? How about IP routing? Splitters? Data mining and analytics? The semantic web? Link analysis, rule-based content analysis and suspicion indexing?
Please go educate yourself on this topic before contributing. You're way out of your depth. I'd suggest going back and looking at some of the previous threads on the matter, as well as visiting www.eff.org for more information.
QUOTE (5by5 @ Jul 5 2008, 10:40 AM)
Do you even understand the concept of a network? Encryption? How about IP routing? Splitters? Data mining and analytics? The semantic web? Link analysis, rule-based content analysis and suspicion indexing?
I would argue that most people would not. Techism holds that when technology exceeds the grasp of a political system, the responsibility is upon the techists to update the system or explain the technology.
They're just surfing the net -- which is something they can do. They're not hiring people to hack into other people's computers -- just look for suspicious websites.
At worst it's a waste of money. No rights are being infringed by this.
At worst it's a waste of money. No rights are being infringed by this.
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