Here is an example of what we can expect when the governemnt starts to run our healthcare system.
A shocking video shows a woman dying on the floor in the psych ward at Kings County Hospital, while people around her, including a security guard, did nothing to help.
After an hour, another mental patient finally got the attention of the indifferent hospital workers, according to the tape, obtained by the Daily News.
Worse still, the surveillance tape suggests hospital staff may have falsified medical charts to cover the utter lack of treatment provided Esmin Green before she died.
"Thank God for the videotape because no one would have believed this could have happened," said Donna Lieberman, executive director of the New York Civil Liberties Union.
"There's a clear possibility of criminal wrongdoing with regard to recordkeeping, and that has to be investigated."
The city Department of Investigation is part of a sweeping probe that has brought some changes to the ward known as G Building.
A federal suit filed last year in Brooklyn alleged neglect and abuse of mental patients at the hospital. The suit sparked an investigation by the Brooklyn U.S. attorney's civil rights unit before the June 19 death.
Two different security guards spotted Green, a native of the island of Jamaica, prone on the floor and did nothing, the tape shows. They have been fired, along with four other staffers.
Green, 49, taken to the unit for "agitation," keels over out of her chair at 5:32a.m., according to the time stamp on the video. She had been sitting about 3feet from an observation window. Two other patients were in the room.
Green is lying facedown on the floor, her legs splayed, when a security guard strolls by at 5:53 a.m., looks at her for about 20 seconds and then walks away.
She is writhing on the floor, thrashing her legs, about 6 a.m., when her medical chart contends she was "awake, up and about, went to the bathroom."
Green rolls on her back at 6:04a.m. She stops moving at 6:08 a.m., but two minutes later a security guard pushed his chair into camera view.
He never gets out of the chair, but looks at Green and scoots away. A female patient who was in and out of the room finally brings a clinic staffer to check the woman and a crash cart is summoned.
The medical chart claims she was "sitting quietly in [the] waiting room" at 6:20 a.m., although she was already dead. The cause of death is still under investigation.
"We are shocked and distressed by this situation," the Health and Hospitals Corp. said in a statement.
http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/brookl...lped_dying.html
Full Version: Obamas health care program
QUOTE (middleoftheroad @ Jul 1 2008, 07:50 PM) 
Here is an example of what we can expect when the governemnt starts to run our healthcare system.
A shocking video shows a woman dying on the floor in the psych ward at Kings County Hospital, while people around her, including a security guard, did nothing to help.
After an hour, another mental patient finally got the attention of the indifferent hospital workers, according to the tape, obtained by the Daily News.
Worse still, the surveillance tape suggests hospital staff may have falsified medical charts to cover the utter lack of treatment provided Esmin Green before she died.
"Thank God for the videotape because no one would have believed this could have happened," said Donna Lieberman, executive director of the New York Civil Liberties Union.
"There's a clear possibility of criminal wrongdoing with regard to recordkeeping, and that has to be investigated."
The city Department of Investigation is part of a sweeping probe that has brought some changes to the ward known as G Building.
A federal suit filed last year in Brooklyn alleged neglect and abuse of mental patients at the hospital. The suit sparked an investigation by the Brooklyn U.S. attorney's civil rights unit before the June 19 death.
Two different security guards spotted Green, a native of the island of Jamaica, prone on the floor and did nothing, the tape shows. They have been fired, along with four other staffers.
Green, 49, taken to the unit for "agitation," keels over out of her chair at 5:32a.m., according to the time stamp on the video. She had been sitting about 3feet from an observation window. Two other patients were in the room.
Green is lying facedown on the floor, her legs splayed, when a security guard strolls by at 5:53 a.m., looks at her for about 20 seconds and then walks away.
She is writhing on the floor, thrashing her legs, about 6 a.m., when her medical chart contends she was "awake, up and about, went to the bathroom."
Green rolls on her back at 6:04a.m. She stops moving at 6:08 a.m., but two minutes later a security guard pushed his chair into camera view.
He never gets out of the chair, but looks at Green and scoots away. A female patient who was in and out of the room finally brings a clinic staffer to check the woman and a crash cart is summoned.
The medical chart claims she was "sitting quietly in [the] waiting room" at 6:20 a.m., although she was already dead. The cause of death is still under investigation.
"We are shocked and distressed by this situation," the Health and Hospitals Corp. said in a statement.
http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/brookl...lped_dying.html
A shocking video shows a woman dying on the floor in the psych ward at Kings County Hospital, while people around her, including a security guard, did nothing to help.
After an hour, another mental patient finally got the attention of the indifferent hospital workers, according to the tape, obtained by the Daily News.
Worse still, the surveillance tape suggests hospital staff may have falsified medical charts to cover the utter lack of treatment provided Esmin Green before she died.
"Thank God for the videotape because no one would have believed this could have happened," said Donna Lieberman, executive director of the New York Civil Liberties Union.
"There's a clear possibility of criminal wrongdoing with regard to recordkeeping, and that has to be investigated."
The city Department of Investigation is part of a sweeping probe that has brought some changes to the ward known as G Building.
A federal suit filed last year in Brooklyn alleged neglect and abuse of mental patients at the hospital. The suit sparked an investigation by the Brooklyn U.S. attorney's civil rights unit before the June 19 death.
Two different security guards spotted Green, a native of the island of Jamaica, prone on the floor and did nothing, the tape shows. They have been fired, along with four other staffers.
Green, 49, taken to the unit for "agitation," keels over out of her chair at 5:32a.m., according to the time stamp on the video. She had been sitting about 3feet from an observation window. Two other patients were in the room.
Green is lying facedown on the floor, her legs splayed, when a security guard strolls by at 5:53 a.m., looks at her for about 20 seconds and then walks away.
She is writhing on the floor, thrashing her legs, about 6 a.m., when her medical chart contends she was "awake, up and about, went to the bathroom."
Green rolls on her back at 6:04a.m. She stops moving at 6:08 a.m., but two minutes later a security guard pushed his chair into camera view.
He never gets out of the chair, but looks at Green and scoots away. A female patient who was in and out of the room finally brings a clinic staffer to check the woman and a crash cart is summoned.
The medical chart claims she was "sitting quietly in [the] waiting room" at 6:20 a.m., although she was already dead. The cause of death is still under investigation.
"We are shocked and distressed by this situation," the Health and Hospitals Corp. said in a statement.
http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/brookl...lped_dying.html
This is actually due to the lack of universal health care
Nice try
QUOTE (gutterballz @ Jul 1 2008, 04:52 PM)
This is actually due to the lack of universal health care
Nice try
Nice try
No, this is what we'll get with universal healthcare. Government beaurocrats and union employees caring more about their next break then the patients. Just like all other governemnt run projects.
QUOTE (middleoftheroad @ Jul 1 2008, 07:57 PM)
No, this is what we'll get with universal healthcare. Government beaurocrats and union employees caring more about their next break then the patients. Just like all other governemnt run projects.
INCORRECT
QUOTE (middleoftheroad @ Jul 1 2008, 04:57 PM)
No, this is what we'll get with universal healthcare. Government beaurocrats and union employees caring more about their next break then the patients. Just like all other governemnt run projects.
How does that happen again?
Obama's plan doesn't involve any of that.
Are we talking about the same Obama?
If you were half as centrist as you pretend to be you would LOVE Obama. They don't come any more middle of the road.
QUOTE (Hamoth @ Jul 1 2008, 05:01 PM)
How does that happen again?
Obama's plan doesn't involve any of that.
Are we talking about the same Obama?
If you were half as centrist as you pretend to be you would LOVE Obama. They don't come any more middle of the road.
Obama's plan doesn't involve any of that.
Are we talking about the same Obama?
If you were half as centrist as you pretend to be you would LOVE Obama. They don't come any more middle of the road.
He is not center by any means. He has the most liberal voting record in the Senate. hillary and McCain were the center candidates. Don't believe anything he says. Remember, his pastor told us that he was a politician and does what politicians need to say to get elected. He was right on that issue at least.
What a boof! Take a story out of the news that is sure to draw a gasp and then blame it on Obama.
Do I have your attention? Ok....this will just take a sec.....HILLARY LOST DEAL WITH IT!!!!!!
Move on or get out of the way....but do something besides obstruct.
Do I have your attention? Ok....this will just take a sec.....HILLARY LOST DEAL WITH IT!!!!!!
Move on or get out of the way....but do something besides obstruct.
QUOTE (middleoftheroad @ Jul 1 2008, 08:31 PM)
He is not center by any means. He has the most liberal voting record
You have your right wing talking points down
that one came right out of Rove's mouth didn't it ? 
Actually Bernie Sanders is the most liberal member of the senate
Try again
QUOTE (middleoftheroad @ Jul 1 2008, 05:31 PM)
He is not center by any means. He has the most liberal voting record in the Senate.
Come on..I thought that was Kerry. They can't all have the most liberal voting record...
That shit is old. Try again.
QUOTE
hillary and McCain were the center candidates.
How is Clinton's record less liberal than Obama's?
QUOTE
Don't believe anything he says. Remember, his pastor told us that he was a politician and does what politicians need to say to get elected. He was right on that issue at least.
Don't believe polticians....hmmm...yes, that bears directly on your bizarre claims about Obama.
McCain is a yellow lizard...if he denies it, remember that he is a politician...
QUOTE (gutterballz @ Jul 1 2008, 05:52 PM)
You have your right wing talking points down that one came right out of Rove's mouth didn't it ?
Actually Bernie Sanders is the most liberal member of the senate
Try again
that one came right out of Rove's mouth didn't it ? Actually Bernie Sanders is the most liberal member of the senate
Try again
Nope, Obama is even left of the socialist/commie Sanders.
http://nj.nationaljournal.com/voteratings/
QUOTE (Hamoth @ Jul 1 2008, 06:38 PM)
Come on..I thought that was Kerry. They can't all have the most liberal voting record...
That shit is old. Try again.
How is Clinton's record less liberal than Obama's?
Don't believe polticians....hmmm...yes, that bears directly on your bizarre claims about Obama.
McCain is a yellow lizard...if he denies it, remember that he is a politician...
That shit is old. Try again.
How is Clinton's record less liberal than Obama's?
Don't believe polticians....hmmm...yes, that bears directly on your bizarre claims about Obama.
McCain is a yellow lizard...if he denies it, remember that he is a politician...
I dont worry about the republicans, i worry about the party I would prefer to win. Sadly, if Obama is the candidate, as it is most assured he will be, We will lose. One day he is against free trade then he's for it. he's against faith based initatives, then he's for it. he wants to renegotiate nafta then send his agent to canada to give him a wink and a nod. He wants to negotiate with the tyrants in Iran, what about I have no idea. He's way too liberal and this country will never elect anybody that far away from the center. The republicans will have a field day running against him. They just have to show his record, or in most cases, lack of same. I cannot vote for Obama and will have to do what I think is best for the country and me. I will vote against Obama and that means I will have to vote for McCain.
QUOTE (middleoftheroad @ Jul 2 2008, 10:37 PM)
Nope, Obama is even left of the socialist/commie Sanders.
http://nj.nationaljournal.com/voteratings/
http://nj.nationaljournal.com/voteratings/
NOPE
bernie sanders
http://www.issues2000.org/House/Bernie_Sanders.htm
barack obama
http://www.ontheissues.org/Barack_Obama.htm
see the site your using is right wing biased
Try again
QUOTE (gutterballz @ Jul 2 2008, 07:50 PM)
NOPE
bernie sanders
http://www.issues2000.org/House/Bernie_Sanders.htm
barack obama
http://www.ontheissues.org/Barack_Obama.htm
see the site your using is right wing biased
Try again
bernie sanders
http://www.issues2000.org/House/Bernie_Sanders.htm
barack obama
http://www.ontheissues.org/Barack_Obama.htm
see the site your using is right wing biased
Try again
You need to try again, there is no rankings that I could find on your links.
QUOTE (middleoftheroad @ Jul 2 2008, 10:57 PM)
You need to try again, there is no rankings that I could find on your links.
learn to read a graph
As shocking and as inexcusable that this is, it is not to say that this proves that ALL hospitals will be like this, if the government takes over our health care....let's face it....some hospitals are better than others...for example, we have 3 hospitals in our general area....two I would go to, one I wouldn't step into even if I were dying...I'm serious, it's that bad...
So, to say that ALL hospitals will be like this is an unfair statement....
So, to say that ALL hospitals will be like this is an unfair statement....
QUOTE (middleoftheroad @ Jul 2 2008, 07:37 PM)
Nope, Obama is even left of the socialist/commie Sanders.
http://nj.nationaljournal.com/voteratings/
http://nj.nationaljournal.com/voteratings/
QUOTE
a computer-assisted analysis that used 99 key Senate votes, selected by NJ reporters and editors,
Right...
See "Selection Bias"
http://skepdic.com/selectionbias.html
QUOTE (middleoftheroad @ Jul 2 2008, 07:57 PM)
You need to try again, there is no rankings that I could find on your links.
That's because the site we showed uses a standard political metric that isn't funded by an agenda driven partisan magazine, with all due respect.
the real problem is the private health ins co's and their ceo's making 1 billion a year arent making enough profit
that must be the reason I just had to pay $125 for a rx of quinine tablets...
ins dont cover it, why? because they can say no and who is going to argue...
universal health care is the only way, but dont listen to the person IN THE INSURANCE BUSINESS WHO KNOWS WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT
that must be the reason I just had to pay $125 for a rx of quinine tablets...
ins dont cover it, why? because they can say no and who is going to argue...
universal health care is the only way, but dont listen to the person IN THE INSURANCE BUSINESS WHO KNOWS WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT
QUOTE
that must be the reason I just had to pay $125 for a rx of quinine tablets...
I feel like it's a mistake to blame the fat cats' salaries. Or maybe it's better to say, I feel it's a mistake to simply blame their salaries. They are rich, and therefore complacent and uninterested in reducing prices. They could cut a lot of waste and streamline - they just don't care.
All that said, I suggest a far better method for delivering the quinine:
Take several times daily, as needed, for pain until November.
QUOTE (Hamoth @ Jul 3 2008, 10:50 AM)
I feel like it's a mistake to blame the fat cats' salaries. Or maybe it's better to say, I feel it's a mistake to simply blame their salaries. They are rich, and therefore complacent and uninterested in reducing prices. They could cut a lot of waste and streamline - they just don't care.
All that said, I suggest a far better method for delivering the quinine:
Take several times daily, as needed, for pain until November.
All that said, I suggest a far better method for delivering the quinine:
Take several times daily, as needed, for pain until November.
just straight water would solve my problem, leg cramps, probably...trying to train myself to drink more...
their salaries are a reflection of their desire to short change us, it was all set up years ago, HMO's were the brainchild of nixons buddies, now it is even worse, health savings accounts
it is all about providing less service for more costs so there is more profit, i am on the inside and i know this, sometimes i wish i didnt
QUOTE
just straight water would solve my problem, leg cramps, probably...
The cramps build as you walk, burn, front of legs? You have to stop? Do you have visible bumps that look like they could be pulled muscles, muscle tears, or anything like that? Do the tops of your feet tingle?
I ask because I take tonic for my "leg cramps". Took me forever to find out what it really was.
My whole life I had problems with "leg cramps" and I tried all kinds of nutty supplements and life-style changes, all to no effect.
Just looking out for anyone who might have the same thing.
QUOTE (Hamoth @ Jul 3 2008, 11:20 AM)
The cramps build as you walk, burn, front of legs? You have to stop? Do you have visible bumps that look like they could be pulled muscles, muscle tears, or anything like that? Do the tops of your feet tingle?
I ask because I take tonic for my "leg cramps". Took me forever to find out what it really was.
My whole life I had problems with "leg cramps" and I tried all kinds of nutty supplements and life-style changes, all to no effect.
Just looking out for anyone who might have the same thing.
I ask because I take tonic for my "leg cramps". Took me forever to find out what it really was.
My whole life I had problems with "leg cramps" and I tried all kinds of nutty supplements and life-style changes, all to no effect.
Just looking out for anyone who might have the same thing.
no bumps and i think mine come from lack of exercise (quit smoking now have no reason to get out of my chair, had to go outside to smoke).....
so far I have learned following: B-12 helps...bananas help, drinking lots of water helps, there are over the counter quinine tablets that help, no tingling that i can recall...my problem right now is have severe pain/shoulder rotator cuff torn, when cramp hits me i wake up and forget about shoulder and use it to get out of bed to stop cramp, then my shoulder is made worse and that pain is incredible..i am a wreck
QUOTE (Randys @ Jul 3 2008, 11:24 AM)
no bumps and i think mine come from lack of exercise (quit smoking now have no reason to get out of my chair, had to go outside to smoke).....
When I quit, I got a dog. It's annoying, but those daily walks keep you alive and fit.
QUOTE
so far I have learned following: B-12 helps...bananas help, drinking lots of water helps, there are over the counter quinine tablets that help, no tingling that i can recall...my problem right now is have severe pain/shoulder rotator cuff torn, when cramp hits me i wake up and forget about shoulder and use it to get out of bed to stop cramp, then my shoulder is made worse and that pain is incredible..i am a wreck
Tell me about it. I'm 33 and crippled from nothing but overuse injuries. I can barely walk, my right arm's useless and left arm's gimped out from arthritis and bursitis for compensating. Pathetic. Blame the macho "that which doesn't kill you" , "no pain no gain" logic. What a bunch of crap.
My whole young life was people telling me to suck it up and stop being a wimp. My whole adult life is people telling me that I'm an idiot for ignoring all my bodies "natural warnings".
Bah.
Anyway...if they never really get better, it's good to know about a condition called ECS (Exertional Compartment Syndrome). The tell for me, is that tonic helps the pain from the nerve damage that may occur from ignoring this and being a tough guy. If you have a high pain tollerance, you might be ignoring a more serious problem.
QUOTE (Christine @ Jul 1 2008, 08:43 PM)
What a boof! Take a story out of the news that is sure to draw a gasp and then blame it on Obama.
...
Move on or get out of the way....but do something besides obstruct.
...
Move on or get out of the way....but do something besides obstruct.
Right on Christine!
Ok, middleoftheroad have you been listening to Thom Hartmann this morning? Most of his show is discussing health care. If you are interested here's their podcast site: http://www.620kpoj.com/cc-common/podcast.html
does anyone know the cost to the american people? as in % tax increase?
If universal health care doesn't place mandates on vaccines, or try to control dietary supplements, then it's a good thing. It would be even better if 'integrative medicine' was included. Alternative Health Care would save the country billions through preventative care and natural remedies.
It should be at least an option. If the government did a statistical study on 'integrative health' successes, they'd really understand why so many who use alternatives are so healthy.
It should be at least an option. If the government did a statistical study on 'integrative health' successes, they'd really understand why so many who use alternatives are so healthy.
QUOTE (Morgan @ Jul 3 2008, 11:51 AM)
If universal health care doesn't place mandates on vaccines, or try to control dietary supplements, then it's a good thing. It would be even better if 'integrative medicine' was included. Alternative Health Care would save the country billions through preventative care and natural remedies.
It should be at least an option. If the government did a statistical study on 'integrative health' successes, they'd really understand why so many who use alternatives are so healthy.
It should be at least an option. If the government did a statistical study on 'integrative health' successes, they'd really understand why so many who use alternatives are so healthy.
Obama's plan differed from Clinton's in the singular aspect of respect for an individuals choice to decline participation.
Correctly, his plan is called universal access to health care...not universal health care.
QUOTE (gutterballz @ Jul 2 2008, 07:50 PM)
NOPE
bernie sanders
http://www.issues2000.org/House/Bernie_Sanders.htm
barack obama
http://www.ontheissues.org/Barack_Obama.htm
see the site your using is right wing biased
Try again
bernie sanders
http://www.issues2000.org/House/Bernie_Sanders.htm
barack obama
http://www.ontheissues.org/Barack_Obama.htm
see the site your using is right wing biased
Try again
BTW, I dod go to the NAACP website and they have him rated 100% liberal also. EXCEPT for the fact that he could not be rated on 6 issues because he missed the votes. These were for the 2007 year, so running for office wasnt the issue. Missed votes. SOUND FAMILIAR?
QUOTE (middleoftheroad @ Jul 3 2008, 03:25 PM)
BTW, I dod go to the NAACP website and they have him rated 100% liberal also. EXCEPT for the fact that he could not be rated on 6 issues because he missed the votes. These were for the 2007 year, so running for office wasnt the issue. Missed votes. SOUND FAMILIAR?
Like...a....s..e.naTOR!?
Oh my god! He's in the Senate!
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