Until I'm able to figure out what Barack Obama is doing on FISA and his plans to EXPAND the Office of Faith Based Initiatives I'm taking my Obama button off because these are not positions I favor ... I wish Russ Feingold was running !

I'm not interested in further enhancements of bush's idea to breach the wall separating church and state, I'm deeply troubled by Obama's stance as well as his capitulation on FISA.

NO, I won't sit out the election and I'd never vote for McCain as an act of political murder-suicide, but right now I'm disappointed and I would like to understand what senator Obama is doing?

being a politician who wants to win more than anything else...that is what he is doing

be sure that he will do or say pretty much anything necessary to achieve that goal, the question is who and what will he be once in office...

my hope is he wont be the centrist he is today, but that is a real concern...at the end of the day, his Supreme Court appointments will be vastly better than mccains and for that reason alone wild horses couldnt keep me away from the voting booth

Veto proof Congress, keep that in your head. Who's running in your area? My mission is to do all I can to Ditch Mitch this year.

He's "positioning" himself to get more votes by evangelicals and blue collar workers. He does explain his positions pretty well, but to the extent that the revolutionary change is sounding less and less revolutionary. But why take off your button? The alternative is McCain. That will be no change at all, and even worse.

To use Randi's analogy about falling in love with the primary candidates: So we fell in love and got married. Now we are finding out all those annoying things we didn't know before, but we should love him all the same.

Could Obama be trumping Republicans on their own talking points: Obama will do anything to win?

think of where our country is at. he has to start somewhere.

This is what we keep saying. But we continue to vote for the status quo (Democrat/Republican). Nothing will change if we continue to do this. The two major partis are the problem, not the solution.

I could not agree more.

Everyone should read Doris Kearns Goodwins' Team of Rivals. Lincoln had to do all sort of political wheeling and dealing in the name of keeping the country together. Just Remember:
NO MCCAIN

I don't think so. The Bush regime has done severe damage to our institution and the national psyche. We DO need a starting point and I feel Obama understands this.

Excellent point

BUT another knee jerk ractionary thread about Obama ?!

Newbie. Go figure.

He still has to try to attract those who might not vote for him, it ain't over yet.

obama's just selling out a small piece of his integrity. Just a small bit. We as democrats simply have to put up with it.

it's just a little corner of the constitution put into the shredder, it's much better than burning the whole thing down in the name of national security, right?

This november we'll simply have to lose a little piece of our own integrity, a small snippet of our soul when we vote for Obama. Nothing wrong with doing this, right? And the next election, and the one after that.....

I never drank the Koolaid, so to me, nothing suprising nor distressing.

The FISA thing is not immunity to the Telecoms, but the mechanisms implemented by it are better than what is currently done and provides needed oversight. It is a decent base from which to start.

If the Telecoms think they are scot free because of this, Obama will have a few suprises in store for them, of this I have no doubt.

Look, the right is saying Obama is the most liberal, and people here are saying hes too centrist. He is neither, but I want someone to get things done and to look at the big picture, and I want someone to be inclusive and represent all fifty states. The fact that he doesn't see red and blue is fine, and not every position he takes is one that I agree with, but if he does it in respect to those that do, thats fine.

It's not all about you. Repugs did this forever, they only cared about winning, nothing else. No compromise, no signs of negotiation, no wavering. And this is the mess it caused.

He is a constitutional law expert, he knows more than I do. I trust him.

It's time to be agents of Karma and dish it back at them. Vote them out of office and destroy their party entirely. It's time to see a third party take over, and I'd like to see the Libertarians replace the Republican Party.

Of course, then the religious wrong can start their own Christian Reconstructionism party and be the marginalized 3rd party.

And the Democrats have sat back and allowed the Bush regime to do that severe damage. Obama definetely understands that we need a starting point. That's why he's saying it's him. Every election cycle the two parties tell us, that they're the only ones who can solve the problems that they themselves have created. And every election cycle we believe it. If I vote for Obama I'll do it with the understanding that the broken status quo will go merrily on, because Obama is part of the status quo.

Remember this key phrase:

WAR WITH IRAN

Then think of who has a better chance of keeping us out of one. 'Nuff said.

I don't buy it in that sense because he would be taking the risk of gathering a few more votes at the expense of losing tons of votes from his original base. Plus, if he is willing to use these dishonest tactics just to get in office by attaining more votes, then how do we know that he hasn't been stringing the rest of us all along from the beginning by saying what we want to hear, but having an alternative agenda once he gets in office.

You do realize he has ties to the ethanol industry & development, so now you know why he did so well in Iowa. The more that's finally coming out on him and his decisions, as well his ideals, the more people are beginning to turn away from him. He went with Bush on immunity to the telecom companies that helped the govt. spy on millions of Americans. Be careful who you vote for, I don't think everything is as clear as it looks.

Think about it; What better way to keep the Bush agenda going, by using a bought man from the other side (Obama), and then showing up to promote McCain, all in hopes of dooming McCain, because Bush knows the majority of this country despises him now.

Let's play a game, it's called guess who drank the bongwater, any takers? I'm going with #19, BTW say hi to Rush for me....and tell him I said he's a fat fuck.

Wow really, have you been to Obama's website and read what he has to say? Or do you want it spoonfed to you in small bites? Taking your button off seems a little childish, these are complex issues and it is all explained in detail on Obama's site. Good luck!

This is why we need to elect a Progressive Congress.

"If you give away the house, you won't have a home to live in."

I'm not sure why anyone ever thought he was anything other than the typical politician who'll say anything to get elected - it's so obvious. He's stayed neutral whenever he possibly could in his career, and his strongly "principles" were always subject to change - like rejecting Wright and his Church, took all of a couple of months.

People acted so retarded in the primary, like they were part of a "movement," some higher calling, lol. Not hardly, they were part of a successful PR pitch, could have been Obama, or the latest line of flavored water, different on the surface, but the same old water. "Change" nice word, but it never had any meat on it or substance to it. Now, with his flip- flopping like a fish out of water on FISA, Iraq, campaign finance, etc., etc., etc., it's even more ridiculous.

But yeah, supreme court nominations are key, AND I have this crazy hope that he'll appoint John Edwards as AG, and Edwards will put all those Bushie CRIMINALS IN JAIL! THAT alone would make voting for him worthwhile.

No Obama fan here either.

Office of "FAITH BASED" ANYTHING is UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

If we need CHARITY we should have WELFARE you people!

Randy is WRONG AGAIN.

Still hawking her guy.... still hawking religion.



This comment was typed by a Christian.


Here this Randi: It's 1/4 the way into the second hour. Keep it up and I switch off in 15 minutes. I can't stand being harangued.

We have almost 8 years of having our constitution trashed by a president that either doesn't understand its principles or doesn't care, a business-as-usual congress that mostly cares nothing for it either, and a court system systematically packed with cynical judges, who have no apparent allegiance to anything but big corporations. Is there any way to get back the constitutional ideals short of bloody revolution? Hope so.

Probably that way will be through the courts. Even this supreme court could breath life back into habeas corpus as it was about have its last gasp.

But a constitutional scholar who cannot see the jarring contradiction between the government forking over money to any religious establishment and "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,..." Can he be trusted to appoint judges who can? Hope so.

Here this ?

I'll vote, I'll definitely vote for Obama and VP "X" on the Democratic ticket. I always vote for the Democratic ticket. Sometimes I hold my nose harder than other times. Obama just made this a hard long pinch as I suspected he would from the start. He's not strong enough to be my man. That would have been Gore or Edwards but they saw the writing on the wall...the status quo remains and the murdering thieving thugs walk away scott free. I'm not really even disappointed. This "moving to the center" where nobody really exists was just a matter of when not if.

I wouldn't even mind a shift toward the center on SOME issues, but not the ones that really are principled questions of freedom and Constitutionality. He could move toward the center on trade and a number of other issues. It's the issues he's fuzzy on that scares me. He's pandering to the far right, and expecting to get moderates. That's not going to happen.

Not by ignoring his real base. He's the nominee because we thought he'd defend our Constitution, not backpedal into the "central" abyss of nothingness and no solutions to anything ever.

Bingo! Great reply!

Welcome to the board, Panda, from a native-born Venturan who's grandparents lived in Ojai for many years. Have some calamari at Duke's on Seaward for me. Twinkletoes is sending me two t-shirts from Duke's, always my favorite hangout in Ventura.

This is a statement with which I agree.

I - 2

Oooh, I "friended" you.
It's a beautiful day today.
90 in the shade. Hahahaahaaaaa
Dukes...mmmmmm.

Well Mike Malloy was pondering last night if Obama might be pandering to the center so that he could get elected and then drop the liberal hammer on em once elected. I dunno.

I do know this, Except for Dennis Kucinich, I was leery of all the candidates that were running for president. I am watching Obama moves intently and what I have seen as of late is very disappointing. But then again this is all talk at present and maybe he is just tossing up for the republi-botz.

Obama's support of Bush's Office of Faith Based Initiatives is kinda weird. BTW, what did the Office of Faith Based Initiatives do with the money anyway? If they did not do good with the money maybe it should be renamed Office of Fraud Based Initiatives...oh wait... that is the Federal Reserve.

But then again maybe it's just talk, we'll see in due time if he is elected preznit. If Obama is elected president and spits in the eye of LIBERALS who put him in office, this country is truly finished. This is the last chance to correct the ship.

N-3

Dear Mr and/or Miss,
Put your button back on. It's okay.

I'm a Zen guy. I want what works. If Barack can transform the Office of Faith-Based Initiatives from the Republican Gospel of Bondage to an organization that actually HELPS poor people, I'm down with that.

Wishful thinking on Mike's part I suspect. He knows better. So do we.



Hahahaha. The whole thing is seriously frightening. It's unconstitutional. Bush and his gang of thieves set up every possible method of stealing our tax dollars they could with as many GOP middle men and GOP skimmers getting in on the deals as possible. Bremer "lost" $9 BILLION in Iraq. The "faith based" gang can't account for our tax dollars. Criminal! That dough should have been poured into New Orleans instead of churches...for christ's sake aren't religious folks supposed to help others out of love, not for money? Isn't charity supposed to hurt? Bushco gutted FEMA and stole our money then tells us we have to help each other anyway since we're on our own.




I'm on that ship with you. I don't think it's "talk" though, this is serious pandering and if it's a religious issue he means it. He's courting the evangelicals and he knows it. I haven't had the nominee of MY choice since...um........ can't remember one who thrilled me. We're skuhrooed anyway...the official Depression of the Millennium is about to pick up serious speed. Just in time for #44 to take all the blame. We'll need each other locally more and more.

Look if Obama is going to continue the Office of Faith Based initiatives, there better be some serious audits and controls about what is done with the money. In addition the religious entity should submit a plan as to what exactly they are going to do with the funds and should be audited accordingly.

If fraud is found the religious entity should lose their tax exempt status.

While I am a big time Obama supporter I am also scratching my head on some of the things he's been doing and supporting latley. From the Office of Faith Based Intitiatives to his support of the Fisa Bil I am perplexed. But then I realized he said he wanted to appoint an office for Poverty as well. It seems as if he is trying to put people in position to help everyone in the country, he did come up as a community organizer and yes the church is a place where people go for help in times of need. If people feel the government won't help them, maybe by him putting money in these places will show them that the government does care. He might also see it like I see it religion os an important place in peoples hearts and the way they live there life. I'm a Muslim, so religion guides my life, but for those that aren't religious they might feel a different way about it. I truly believe that he is doing this not for votes but he generally belives that religion is where people bond and live throughout there communities and this is a way to help them. Now his stance on Fisa I'm not cool with, but we'll see why he chooses to support this and what he is going to do with it. Yes you are not supposed to mix religion and politics but if you are funding programs to help people I don't see a problem with that as long as everything is transparent.

One of Randi's callers mentioned this.

Thank you sir.

I'm thinkin' more like "B-2"

Your neo-Con Dems are part of the status quo but you can't say all Dems are esp with a corrupt lockstep repug party the past 7 yrs.

We can't judge yet. All we can do is not allow ourselves to become the Republican rank and file that took so long to wake up. If anything Obama has HELPED put in the infrastructure for change, not on his own, which he himself states and we have to hold him accountable.

Actually you confuse the movement w/ the Hiilbot attacks of "higher calling", "messiah" etc. The only ones saying Obama was a "messiah" etc were the voices in Clintonistas heads and the media.

There is a movement underfoot since Katrina and 06 elections; Obama's just a part of it. IF he back stabs us WHEN he gets in I think the movement will bury him.

Barack Obama By Supporting The FISA Legislation Is To Bring Back Warrants And The Court Authorizations For The Check On The Presidents Powers That’s Now obstructed And not required Due to The Executive authority. Clime On Our Sovereign Immunity Of our Constitutional Rights.

Yes The Separations Of Religions Clouse Don’t Apply If All Religions Are Included To Take Advantage Of A Organized Base Of Volunteers To Serve The Community By Running Food Pantries Thrift Stores For The Needy And Racked By Tragedy Or Unforeseen Misfortune. Or Day Care Or After School Activates. To Watch The Children Of Parents That Are Working To Meat the Needs Of Their Family’s in a ever demanding economy.