Seems like ever since he wrapped up the Party's nomination he has been morphing into someone else.
As he does, I find I am less and less excited about him. Don't get me wrong, I will vote, work, and donate for him but the passion is is waining.

Star Tribune dot com

YA...typical politician..hey out there, mediators, anyone know how to unregister yourself from this website. you know like unsubscribe. No where can I find a way to do it?? or do I just delete from bookmarks and forget about it or what???I would like my user name and e-mail address deleted??

Some of us knew he was a centrist before he showed himself to be a centrist.

We kept warning that he was a centrist, not a progressive.

Like I've said before ... cynicism/realism/lowered expectations .... less disappointment.

In other news, he now also says he believes that late-term abortions on the basis of mental distress should not be granted.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5giojIhr...ciQDTgD91MLKF00

Before randys or anybody else reminds me ... yes, I know we have to support him, and we have to win... I just want people to realize who they're getting.

It will save some of the shock and anger come January.

Exactly. The only way to win against HRC was sugar coating the base of the Dem party (us, liberals) He was very successful at it. She (HRC) ran her primary the same was BHO is running the general and that was a stupid move of her part. I am not surprise and I really understand Barack's change in positions however the MSM is all gear to destroy him.

pulling the troops in jan sounds great, but he and I would guess most of us knew that could not be possible.

As much as I hate people talking out of thier @#@#$, I think what he is doing is going to win him the election. Most of america is somewhere in the middle.

?

How's that? Was that ever in the offing?



I'm not sure one eradicated the other.

Do you doubt that I am progressive? Am I not routinely characterized a centrist for my lack of loyalties to dogma and party politics?

Don't know. I have been told by people that I cannot be both a Zionist and a progressive at the same time. That my support for Israel is "DLC"ish or worse makes me a "neocon".

I know I am what I am. What I am may not satisfy people all the time, but I believe myself to be a progressive, and see no contradictions in supporting progressive Zionism, which I do.

I can pretty much say Obama's views on Israel are pretty much the same as mine. If his are "centrist" than fine I guess mine are also. I prefer to think of them as recognizing the validity of both points of view in the conflict, and that it is not so simple as saying one side or the other is all right or all wrong in the conflict.

I admire Obama's independence, when he goes against progressives (like he did considering supporting John Roberts, or when he supported the FISA bill) he at least feels obligated to explain himself. Which is better than we get now.

What's a Zionist?

[ducks]

Jk. Honeymoon's over - now we have to do the real work of getting him elected over McCain. Just like we were telling the Hillary Hardheads to get over it 2 weeks ago, pro-Obama people need to move what seems to me like one-issue voting. FISA was a disappointment, but who thinks it's a good idea to hang their entire vote on that?

I'm not concerned. For one, he's way better than the alternative. For another, he hasn't said he'll change anything. He's said basically he'll use the trip to Iraq as a fact-finding trip and may make some adjustments to his plans based on that. But he still wants out.

You sound like the goddamn Repubs who've been jumping all over this shit to take another swipe at him. First, wait and see if he actually does change anything. And above all, the guy's a good leader, a much better leader than McSame. I'd rather have him do the right thing rather than be like Chimp and stick with the wrong course for eight goddamn years.

Still think we should be more concerned about who he will pick for VP....I heard him just the other day when asked about his choice, he replied "Someone who will make an excellent President"
Once he gets in, he is smart enough to surround himself with a Cabinet and Advisors that are very intelligent, experienced people. I think he will do just fine, but he better be careful, there are some very powerful people that really don't like him out there.

My guess is, he's been dealing with that all his life.

That's the other side of the coin of the big lie that the media is liberal.

Most of America is okay with gays marrying, but for some reason polls show that the majority of americans are only okay with civil unions.
Most of America believes that Bush and Cheney should be impeached for lying us into Iraq, but so little time is placed on the Iraq war by the MSM that it sounds like kooky looney lefties that want our President and VP to answer under oath to their actions.

Sadly, most of america forgot that less than 6 months after 9/11, Bush stated that he wasn't too concerned about where Bin Laden was. That he didn't spend much time on him.

Most of America is left of middle, but the concept that the majority of america are militantly Christian with a Scorched Earth Foreign Policy has been silent for so long begun with the "Moral Majority", spun larger by Faux News, and solidified by adding a persecution complex by stating that although they outnumber us (which they don't) that the so-called minority overpowers them though control of the media. (If this were the case, why is talk radio dominated by right-wing conservatives?)

You know what's not a dissapointment? Americorps. His policy on expanding that program is brilliant, and it's an amazing program that I never heard of despite being just the kind of person they look for. This should be on the tv and radio all the time. What does McCain offer americans who are willing to serve? A place to die? Americorps for any who need it is an amazing offer from Obama that puts health care in the hands of people willing to serve to get it.

Care to provide a link supporting your claim that "Most of America is okay with gays marrying".


Heres my source:

Elated by an 11-for-11 rejection of gay marriage in state elections, conservatives Wednesday urged Congress to follow suit by approving a federal constitutional amendment that would extend the prohibition nationwide.

.......

More than 20 million Americans voted on the measures, which triumphed overall by a 2-to-1 ratio. In the four Southern states, the amendments received at least three-quarters of the votes, including 86 percent in Mississippi; the closest outcome besides Oregon was in Michigan, where the ban got 59 percent.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6383353/

dont care what the majority thinks of gays marrying, all americans must have equal rights

They do. All gays have the right to marry someone from the opposite sex which is what a marriage is defined as.

nonsense, marriage is defined however two people want to define it

you wont get far here with homophobia....

and no, one of them cant be 5 yrs old, we have laws about that

No, marriage is defined by law.

you mean like in calif?

Thats not homophobia, thats a disagreement. My brother is gay and I could care less. It was his choice.

if you want to prevent him from being married then it is homophobic, otherwise you dont fear them and what their getting married will do or you do
ie either you do or you dont worry what their marrying will do to marriage


it isnt arguable, you may not like the word homophobia, but there is no way around this one

i presume your views come from religion so you are probably not able to change them at this time

dont know, just assuming

live and let live

Yes actually. The law in california stipulates marriage is between opposite sexes. As usual, a liberal judge decided he knows better than the voters and overturned the law. It will be shortlived though, thats why everyone is running and getting these sham marriages as quickly as they can.

Not at all. he can marry a woman whenever he and she chooses. Thats his decision.

Since my gay brother also believes that marriage should only be between oposite sexes, does that make him a homophobe also?

but he is gay, why would he marry a woman?

you are prejudice against gays otherwise you would not want to prevent them from having the same rights as you do

if only you could do what jesus did, and love unconditionally...and not make judgment

i should change what i said


so there is no possible way it could be construed a personal attack


it appears to me that you are prejudice against gays...

Defined, and redefined.

Like they did with interracial marriage.

Anti-gay marriage amendments are going the way of Loving vs Virginia. You don't have to like it, you don't have to agree with it, but you do have to live with it.

Yep.

I love my brother unconditonally. I love other gays no more or less that any other person i do not know. I just believe in the sanctity of marriage, which is based in religion. God did not intend it to be so. Plain and simple. I think those that think otherwise are anti religeous zealots.

Like all those liberal judges knew better in 1967 and after 9 years overturned anti-miscegenation laws.

So will all other such discriminatory, straights-first laws be overturned.

Get used to it. Learn to love it.

Our laws are not based on your religious opinions.

The same opinions and arguments were used against interracial marriage.

Welcome to 2008.



US law is not determined by yours or any other religious zealot's personal religion. Nobody cares about it.

Religion is private and nobody is making you change it. Keep your nose out of other people's bedrooms, bigot.

it is called progress and evolution...some do like to fight it though

Let 'em, they're losers. They can move to Saudi Arabia if they don't like gay marriage and want a government ruled by religion.

Fuck 'em.

No personal attack taken.

BTW, here is the definition of homophobia:

ho·mo·pho·bi·a (hm-fb-)
n.
1. Fear of or contempt for lesbians and gay men.
2. Behavior based on such a feeling.

I do not fear homosexuals in anyway and have no contemp for them. They can do as they wish. They can live together, love together, have sex whenever and whichever way they want. I just dont want it thrown in my face and be forced to accept is an normal beahior when it is factually and religously not.

but you do, it is in your attitude that they cant marry...therefore, you must fear what they will do to the institution of marriage

maybe you believe those who say people will want to marry donkeys next? dont know, but fear is part of it, believe me...

but i understand why you dont think so

pretty much everything we dislike we fear in one way or another


ps just saw the thrown in my face, tipoff to extreme prejudice against gays

Too f'n bad.

Suffer.







Keep coming back and I'll rub your nose in a lot more, too.

We don't want your bigot bible verses shoved in our faces, either.



Nobody is forcing you to do anything, because it doesn't matter what you think about it.

Nobody is making you do anything, at all.

You and bigots like you, are irrelevant.

Homophobia is the wrong term and I wish people would stop using it.

The issue is heterosexual supremacy, like what you believe in, and argue for.

Offshoot of majoritarian supremacy, offshoot of white supremacy, offshoot of manifest destiny, offshoot of me-first-you-last.

Sorry, we stopped doing that in the 60s. It's now 2008. Get used to it and STFU.

O Its Just The Republicans Talking Points Trying To Stear The Campane Thurgh Hate destine For The insane McCain doings.

That "law" was voted in by bigots, as were anti-Asian exclusion acts and CA's own version of anti-miscegenation laws (which were undone by the courts prior to Loving vs Virginia).

Bigots are not permitted to deprive their opponents of rights by voting in unconstitutional "laws". You'd think you people would have learned that by now.

Nobody is making you believe something you don't want to, yet you think it's your right to force the state to limit who gets to do what to whom, based on your ancient, mythologically-based hangups.

Sorry, democracy doesn't work that way. Try Iran -- you might fit in better there.

There are four"gates" a President must go through: nomination, election, re-election, last term. All but the last are constrained by what the American people will accept, are wise enough, stupid enough, to accept. You won't know a person as president until their last term is over, when they had nothing to lose and their own values, plus the realities of politics determine where they apply their energies. Right now, there is a real question whether any one BUT a centrist can be elected. I don't think that is so much because Americans are considered centrists, but because they are marketed centrism by MSM and others, and buy it. After each gate is passed, a President can be more himself, but IMO not really until after first election. THEN he/she has power; before then only potential for power.

So I recommend getting to know the values of the person, since those are least likely to change, and most likely to influence what the person attempts in their Presidency. After election we shall see more clearly who Obama is. Now we see through a glass, darkly.

No, they can marry. It is the definition of marriage that we are arguing about. They can marry anyone of the opposite sex they want. Now if they were not allowed to marry someone from the opposite sex because they were gay, that would be wrong. Otherwise a union is fine but that is up to them.

Extreme prejudice. OOOH.

I know you're a gay, so you would be biased to that thought for anybody who finds your choice of lifestyle to be wrong. That will never change. I'll really probably upset you with this idea of mine. I think, since the probability of ever finding a cure for Aids, since no virues has ever been "cured", we should take at least 80% of the funding for Aids and use it to provide healthcare for the poor, who can really use it and it can actually accomplish something. Now you can really rip me up.

BTW, I dont have the right to marry a man. We are equal.

That would be a personal attack and I protest. I have just as much right to my opinion as you.

We are one nation under God.

not gay, just a believer in christain ways, and jesus loved everybody equally and was not bigoted

Cry me a river, bigot.



You can have all the backwards opinions you please; nobody is stopping you from it.

You do not have the right to base laws on that opinion,when it deprives others of the same rights you take for granted.

Gay marriage is here to stay.

Get over it, and move on.