This thread and questions is inspired by the "Pretend Patriotism" thread.

What is "Real Patriotism"?
Is it an unconditional acceptance of all things involving you country, regardless of the consequences of the actions of that country's actions? If I choose to speak out against the actions of my country's leader, does that mean I am unpatriotic? What is the difference between Patriotism and Nationalism? At what point doe Patriotism cross the line to something that is unhealthy?

"love of country and willingness to sacrifice for it;"



Love of country is a pretty simple concept that has nothing to do with whether you agree or disagree with the currently elected officials. It also has nothing to do with ones political persuation.




Again the definition is pretty simple. Do you love your country? If so, then whether you choose to speak out against the elected leaders or not is irrelevent.



For the definition of Nationalism, you have a lot to choose from. My personal preference is number 2 from the first group below. "devotion and loyalty to one's own nation; patriotism."

In terms of Patriotism crossing a line to become unhealthy, some of the definitions of nationalism below might apply.

1. national spirit or aspirations.
2. devotion and loyalty to one's own nation; patriotism.
3. excessive patriotism; chauvinism.
4. the desire for national advancement or independence.
5. the policy or doctrine of asserting the interests of one's own nation, viewed as separate from the interests of other nations or the common interests of all nations.
6. an idiom or trait peculiar to a nation.
7. a movement, as in the arts, based upon the folk idioms, history, aspirations, etc., of a nation.

1. Devotion to the interests or culture of one's nation.
2. The belief that nations will benefit from acting independently rather than collectively, emphasizing national rather than international goals.
3. Aspirations for national independence in a country under foreign domination.

1. love of country and willingness to sacrifice for it
2. the doctrine that your national culture and interests are superior to any other
3. the aspiration for national independence felt by people under foreign domination
4. the doctrine that nations should act independently (rather than collectively) to attain their goals

"Loyalty to your country always, and loyalty to your government when it deserves it." - Mark Twain

Love that Mark Twain quote.

Also love these questions. So often in the current political climate people will cop out on this and suggest that patriotism is whatever it means to whomever it is feeling it. Not so in my opinion. It is a real and definable thing, even though getting at that definition may not be easy. But your other question seems to indicate you already have a grasp of that because it is my feeling that you can define patriotism, but it would then be easy for other people to misunderstand that definition and go beyond the borders of patriotism into something else without also understanding what patriotism is not.

Of the definitions Mr. A Boo provides there is one I particularly favor:

But you have to be careful with this one. For some reason when people see the word 'sacrifice' the first thing that comes to mind is 'human life or lives' which is decidedly the most extreme form that can be taken. But let's look at the very well known examples set by citizens during WWII. Sacrifice took all forms. Some gave their lives for sure, but others gave time, sacrificed convenience in place of rationing and growing their own Victory Gardens, sacrificed vanity and shame to provide nylon, and much more. The sacrifices were in proportion to what each was able to give, and the varying degrees of sacrifice from person to person came together to make a whole national effort work.

But clarity of ones own intentions and the legitimacy of the way each comes to their own decision is something that delineates patriotism from mania. In the same example one can easily point to the soldier who went to die because everyone else in the family chose to and to wimp out would bring shame. One can cite the many Americans who participated in rationing not because they knew it to be the right thing for their country but because it was the only way to get what they needed. Clearly many women chose to forgo nylon stockings not so servicemen would have parachutes but because to wear them at such a time in history would have been unfashionable and bring ridicule and even hatred. So we may be able to define patriotism, but when people suggest that what it means can only be decided by the individual is at least aiming in the direction of the truth. Because whether a person is patriotic or simply pragmatic depends heavily on what lies in the heart of the individual, and for many people it is not so easy to see into them and know for sure which it is.

The difference between patriotism and nationalism is an area that expands on that last. Because one of the things I believe defines patriotism is loving the country in such a way that one does what they truly believe is best for it according to their own knowledge and judgment. Sometimes we do what best supports our countries efforts because we are fully behind the achievement of those goals. Other times we may disagree with the direction the country is going and we offer resistance and dissent - maybe at the sacrifice of our own well being and freedom - in order to effect a change of direction. But most difficult is when we either disagree with the country's direction or methods and have to decide whether to go along or resist based on a broader understanding of what that support or resistance could lead to in the future. Here is where patriotism and nationalism split. Because the patriot will oppose something they might benefit from or support something they don't wholly agree with if their understanding leads them to believe it is in the best long-term interests of the country they love to do so. The nationalist will do whatever appears to support the country most in blind acceptance that it must be in the best interest of the country. So my definition of the difference between a patriot and a nationalist is the patriot informs themself and comes to their own decision about what best serves the country, while the nationalist assumes the best interests of the country are being served most by their own willingness to offer whatever is asked without question. Knowledge and the willingness to pursue it in each given circumstance separates the two. The patriot understands that being as informed as they can be makes them a better resource to perform whatever service to their country that may be asked, while the nationalist is willing to accept that their own lack of understanding and knowledge may be wholly irrelevant to the country's best interests.

So what is a patriot? A patriot sacrifices whatever is called for in the service of their country, AND does what they can to make themselves a better resource for their country through training and learning and independent thinking, AND is willing to oppose their country when those things cause them to conclude that the overall welfare of the country is being harmed rather than helped by the actions they see or are asked to perform.

Maybe not a perfect definition, but the best I have to offer.

Patriotism:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident..."

"...of the people, by the people, for the people..."

Nationalism (now morphing into class-based globalism):

"You're either with us or against us..."

"So?"

What is real patriotism? That's an interesting question.

I happened to be in Nashville this 4th of July and as you would expect of the crowd in the Country Music capital there were any number of so called patriotic displays from bumper stickers to T-shirts. Flags waved and people stood proud but I asked myself, do these people actually know or care what true patriotism is?

I see our flag and I think of what it took to get where it is today. Some bad some good but the the events over the years have shaped our country and forwarded the experiment in democracy that we have today. I think of the ideals that our founding fathers had in mind and the documents they wrote to give this nation life. In my opinion they have nothing to do with the America that we have today.

To be a true patriot is hard, you have to sometimes go against the grain as The Dixie Chicks and others did. You have to take the ridicule of your patriotism and your love of country, that is what really makes you a true patriot. You have to see the vision and hope for the future you have to stand up and be counted instead of going along with the crowd. You have to point out the wrongs and not be afraid to contradict even the ones who would hold seats of power.

In short you have to know what your country should stand for and be willing to fight, against all odds, to assure that it holds true to your ideals. If you can do that then your a true patriot in my book.

As I see it, we have a problem in this country that is undermining our ability to form a "more perfect union." It is our collective inability to participate in a dialog over national concerns. So many of us take a narcissistic point of view, that is many worry about how they and like minded individuals will be perceived if any part of their argument is challenged. When Thomas Payne wrote Common Sense , Americans, engaged in a national dialog that we have probably not seen since. The inability to accept that our own point of view may be wrong, is preventing any forward movement towards that collective goal of a "more perfect union."

Just as a person with Narcissistic Personalty Disorder will use a technique called "devalue and discard" many will attack their advisories by attacking an area that they perceive as a vulnerability. Just as a jilted lover, may attack her former mate as being a "bad lover" even though that is not the case, one compatriot will attack the others patriotism, because they know that this label patriotism is valued by the other.

So true, or try to demean someone on something they can't prove on line, like military service. The Republicans have made a science of it.