Following are examples of mistakes I've seen atheists make when dialoguing with Christians. They are important to know for both sides so better, more respectful, constructive dialogue might take place.
Atheists often challenge the theist to prove God’s existence only within the confines of science.
Science has served humanity well. Through it we have discovered countless natural laws of the universe and use that knowledge to make our lives easier in every area of our existence. But to limit a theist's proofs to the confines of what the atheist demands is terribly one sided. To a Christian, there are experiences that science and logic cannot explain. The atheist needs to recognize that we have experiences that are life changing. No mere psychological set of theories explains the changes in our lives. So please, don't mock them. Can science nail down all that exists in mind, body, and soul? No. Can it quantify the beauty of a sunset, the cooing of a baby, or the love between two people? Science and logic have served us well, but they are not the ultimate truth to all things.
Of course, that does not mean we ignore science. But to limit the playing field to your set of rules is an improper way to start. It is mostly an attempt to initiate control and keep command of the conversation by setting the ground rules according to your criteria.
Though an atheist may not accept biblical evidence as support for God's existence, it does not negate the fact that the Bible is evidence. Whether or not the atheist wants to accept it, is another matter entirely.
Name-calling and insults.
Of course, this is obvious. I heard it said once that the man who strikes first admits his arguments have run out. In some of the discussions I've had with atheists, when I've made a valid point in logic, I have been insulted. To call someone a name is to attack the person and not the issue and it closes the door to true discussion.
Condescension
This is the most common of all mistakes I've encountered with atheists. I've been told by atheists that I'm an idiot for believing God, that if I were truly intelligent I'd abandon my anachronistic thinking, etc. These comments do nothing to further discussion.
Straw-man argumentation
Sometimes atheists will construct an argument against Christianity that does not reflect a true Christian position. For example, one atheist stated that the Trinity was illogical because three gods could not be one God. I had to correct him and show him that the Trinity is the doctrine that there is only one God in three persons, not three gods.
Other straw-man arguments deal with persons who claim to be Christians and act in an unchristian manner. A typical example is the white supremacist who claims to be a Christian and when he does something which is against the Bible, his bad example is used to label all Christians.
Full Version: Mistakes Atheists Make When Dialoguing With Christians
Wasn't this a popular topic a couple of weeks ago???? Are we down to recycling already???
What is the Bible evidence of?
I am all for Obama courting the votes of Christians, liberal and not...Just as long as he doesnt compromise the constitution in doing so.
I am all for Obama courting the votes of Christians, liberal and not...Just as long as he doesnt compromise the constitution in doing so.
QUOTE (BlueLikeJazz @ Jul 7 2008, 02:17 PM) 
Following are examples of mistakes I've seen atheists make when dialoguing with Christians. They are important to know for both sides so better, more respectful, constructive dialogue might take place.
Atheists often challenge the theist to prove God’s existence only within the confines of science.
Science has served humanity well. Through it we have discovered countless natural laws of the universe and use that knowledge to make our lives easier in every area of our existence. But to limit a theist's proofs to the confines of what the atheist demands is terribly one sided. To a Christian, there are experiences that science and logic cannot explain. The atheist needs to recognize that we have experiences that are life changing. No mere psychological set of theories explains the changes in our lives. So please, don't mock them. Can science nail down all that exists in mind, body, and soul? No. Can it quantify the beauty of a sunset, the cooing of a baby, or the love between two people? Science and logic have served us well, but they are not the ultimate truth to all things.
Of course, that does not mean we ignore science. But to limit the playing field to your set of rules is an improper way to start. It is mostly an attempt to initiate control and keep command of the conversation by setting the ground rules according to your criteria.
Though an atheist may not accept biblical evidence as support for God's existence, it does not negate the fact that the Bible is evidence. Whether or not the atheist wants to accept it, is another matter entirely.
Atheists often challenge the theist to prove God’s existence only within the confines of science.
Science has served humanity well. Through it we have discovered countless natural laws of the universe and use that knowledge to make our lives easier in every area of our existence. But to limit a theist's proofs to the confines of what the atheist demands is terribly one sided. To a Christian, there are experiences that science and logic cannot explain. The atheist needs to recognize that we have experiences that are life changing. No mere psychological set of theories explains the changes in our lives. So please, don't mock them. Can science nail down all that exists in mind, body, and soul? No. Can it quantify the beauty of a sunset, the cooing of a baby, or the love between two people? Science and logic have served us well, but they are not the ultimate truth to all things.
Of course, that does not mean we ignore science. But to limit the playing field to your set of rules is an improper way to start. It is mostly an attempt to initiate control and keep command of the conversation by setting the ground rules according to your criteria.
Though an atheist may not accept biblical evidence as support for God's existence, it does not negate the fact that the Bible is evidence. Whether or not the atheist wants to accept it, is another matter entirely.
The bible is evidence of what?
If our civilization dissolves, 2000 years from now some archaeologist will find a stack of comic books and claim we worshiped the Spider God who fought an unending celestial battle with the Venom Demon and the Viridian Goblin and you can bet your ass someone would form a Spider Cult based around that. They'll take the sheer number of comic books to infer an enormous following, they'll look at the extreme preservation of the books and infer divine reverence.
By what measure do you claim that god exists? Faith? Really? So any nut who really really honestly believes something therefore makes it so?
Can science nail down everything that exists in our mind? Not yet, but we're getting there. They've already found the mechanism for sadness and how to deal with it; they're working on explaining love. Give science time and it will explain to you more than the bible ever will.
Can science quantify the beauty of a sunset? The cooing of a baby? Yes. Number of endorphins released.
QUOTE
Name-calling and insults.
Of course, this is obvious. I heard it said once that the man who strikes first admits his arguments have run out. In some of the discussions I've had with atheists, when I've made a valid point in logic, I have been insulted. To call someone a name is to attack the person and not the issue and it closes the door to true discussion.
Of course, this is obvious. I heard it said once that the man who strikes first admits his arguments have run out. In some of the discussions I've had with atheists, when I've made a valid point in logic, I have been insulted. To call someone a name is to attack the person and not the issue and it closes the door to true discussion.
There is no valid point in support of religion. Apart from that, I agree with you.
QUOTE
Condescension
This is the most common of all mistakes I've encountered with atheists. I've been told by atheists that I'm an idiot for believing God, that if I were truly intelligent I'd abandon my anachronistic thinking, etc. These comments do nothing to further discussion.
This is the most common of all mistakes I've encountered with atheists. I've been told by atheists that I'm an idiot for believing God, that if I were truly intelligent I'd abandon my anachronistic thinking, etc. These comments do nothing to further discussion.
Here I agree with you.
QUOTE
Straw-man argumentation
Sometimes atheists will construct an argument against Christianity that does not reflect a true Christian position. For example, one atheist stated that the Trinity was illogical because three gods could not be one God. I had to correct him and show him that the Trinity is the doctrine that there is only one God in three persons, not three gods.
Other straw-man arguments deal with persons who claim to be Christians and act in an unchristian manner. A typical example is the white supremacist who claims to be a Christian and when he does something which is against the Bible, his bad example is used to label all Christians.
Sometimes atheists will construct an argument against Christianity that does not reflect a true Christian position. For example, one atheist stated that the Trinity was illogical because three gods could not be one God. I had to correct him and show him that the Trinity is the doctrine that there is only one God in three persons, not three gods.
Other straw-man arguments deal with persons who claim to be Christians and act in an unchristian manner. A typical example is the white supremacist who claims to be a Christian and when he does something which is against the Bible, his bad example is used to label all Christians.
How can one not straw-man? The bible is absolutely loaded with indefensible ideas, practices and principles. Things like slavery are in the bible.
The bible even has a manual to tell you how to buy slaves. Exodus 21:2-6, Leviticus 25:44-46, Exodus 21:7-11 (delicious passage on how to whore your daughter), Exodus 21:20-21.
The bible endorses murder on monstrous scales. Deuteronomy 13:13-19, Deuteronomy 22:20-21 etc.
It's so easy to find passages in the bible to endorse and defend any number of monstrous abuses. The bible even commands that followers do terrible things to other people. If you're not going to do everything the bible says or don't do some things because of modern sensibilities you must admit that the bible is pointless. You were going to do the good things in the bible regardless of whether or not you read the bible and you wouldn't do the bad things in the bible either.
QUOTE (jkun17 @ Jul 7 2008, 05:58 PM)
The bible is evidence of what?
That's what I'd like to know. In the first book of the bible, in the first chapter in fact, there are TWO creation stories. One has humans created at the same time as the plants and animals, and the other has a man called Adam created first. God created light, then created the sun.
According to the bible, the earth sits on pillars and has a dome over it.
A man named Noah, put a pair of each animal on earth in an arc. Really? No dinasaurs, saber toothed tigers, or wooly mamoths? But I think there was a unicorn in there somewhere...
QUOTE (RitaAnn @ Jul 7 2008, 04:04 PM)
That's what I'd like to know. In the first book of the bible, in the first chapter in fact, there are TWO creation stories. One has humans created at the same time as the plants and animals, and the other has a man called Adam created first. God created light, then created the sun.
According to the bible, the earth sits on pillars and has a dome over it.
A man named Noah, put a pair of each animal on earth in an arc. Really? No dinasaurs, saber toothed tigers, or wooly mamoths? But I think there was a unicorn in there somewhere...
According to the bible, the earth sits on pillars and has a dome over it.
A man named Noah, put a pair of each animal on earth in an arc. Really? No dinasaurs, saber toothed tigers, or wooly mamoths? But I think there was a unicorn in there somewhere...
Oh please, we all know unicorns were gay and had to die.
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