stinemetz
Jul 10 2008, 04:57 PM
For one Karel Rove Who Advocated Respect For The Authority President of the United States.
To Willfully Snub The Authority Of The United States Congress.
This immune to justice syndrome that the executive authority is extending needs to be explained.
The next supine subpoena needs to be for George W Bush cause he would not show up either.
This Oligarchy Demagogy Is A Bunch of Murkily The Bush Executive Supreme Authority Sorority. are Making A Mockery Out of Our Democracy And It’s a Hypocrisy.
Impeach For The Breach Of Faith now.
ARTICLE. I.
in Section 2
The House of Representatives shall Choose Their Speaker and other Officers; and shall have the sole Power of Impeachment.
in SECTION. 3 (for The Senate}
Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not Extend Further than to Removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States,
SECTION. 8.
The Congress shall have the Power To snip/
To constitute Tribunals Inferior to the Supreme Court;
To define and punish Piracies and Offenses Committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations; /snip
QBC
Jul 10 2008, 05:05 PM
QUOTE (stinemetz @ Jul 10 2008, 04:22 PM)

For one Karel Rove Who Advocated Respect For The Authority President of the United States.
To Willfully Snub The Authority Of The United States Congress.
This immune to justice syndrome that the executive authority is extending needs to be explained.
The next supine subpoena needs to be for George W Bush cause he would not show up either.
This Oligarchy Demagogy Is A Bunch of Murkily The Bush Executive Supreme Authority Sorority. are Making A Mockery Out of Our Democracy And It’s a Hypocrisy.
Impeach For The Breach Of Faith now.
ARTICLE. I.
in Section 2
The House of Representatives shall Choose Their Speaker and other Officers; and shall have the sole Power of Impeachment.
in SECTION. 3 (for The Senate}
Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not Extend Further than to Removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States,
SECTION. 8.
The Congress shall have the Power To snip/
To constitute Tribunals Inferior to the Supreme Court;
To define and punish Piracies and Offenses Committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations; /snip

In an earlier post Fellixe supplied the following CRS link regarding Congress’s Contempt Power: Law, History,
Practice, and Procedure. Rather than reciting your left wing talking points, you might do well to give the document a read.
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL34097.pdf
5by5
Jul 10 2008, 05:10 PM
Peak/QBC,
Pestone already addressed this:
QUOTE (pestone @ Jul 9 2008, 09:53 PM)

Just because they've [the DOJ] taken that position doesn't mean they are correct in that position.
The only one repeating "talking points" is you, Peak.
The actual law is on our side. All the Congress has to do is dare to follow it.
IVEATCH
Jul 10 2008, 05:10 PM
QUOTE (fla1sun @ Jul 10 2008, 01:54 PM)

I am going to call my court house right now and ask what happens if I were to ignore a supoena.........
County clerk's office and sheriff's office say you're not going to ignore a supoena here. State's Attorney's office says you can't ignore a supoena, and I'm waiting for the woman who deals with supoena's at the U.S. Attorney's office to get back from lunch.
I wonder when and where Rove was served the supoena.
It was probably served by a U.S. Marshall.
The examples listed above are all of subpoenas from the Judiciary branch of Government. A Congressional (Legislative Branch) subpoena is typically backed up by law enforcement which is part of the Executive branch. Any subpoenas issued from the legislative branch are based on their right to do so under the purview of their responsibility for writting laws (legislation) or budgetary oversight.
The big question is what does Congress do when law enforcement doesn't see/understand any compelling link between the person/information being served the subpoena and Congressional oversight. Serving a subpoena to a person who was previously a member of the Executive branch as an advisor to the President of the United States better have some solid and obvious logic behind it. Fishing around for evidence of possible wrong doing based on suspicion alone is not enough.
Best Regards,
Sasha85
Jul 10 2008, 05:11 PM
I don't get why Rove refuses to testify. He has Bush in his back pocket, Rove knows if anything happens Bush will give him a full pardon. Bush has to for Rove knows where all the bodies are burries.....so to speak. Besides if Rove believes that he is in the right, why run and hide? Only the truly guilty runs and hides.
TwinkleToes
Jul 10 2008, 05:12 PM
QUOTE (IVEATCH @ Jul 10 2008, 02:35 PM)

Serving a subpoena to a person who was previously a member of the Executive branch as an advisor to the President of the United States better have some solid and obvious logic behind it.
Best Regards,
I believe the logic in this case is quite apparent.
TapDuncan
Jul 10 2008, 05:31 PM
Fucking arrest this prick already, if not, then I will never appear in court ever again, I will cite KKKarl's argument, that I'm too important to show up. What a scourge this guy is on AMerica, not to mention how he makes us look in the eyes of the world, inviting more terrists to wreak havoc on us, because hey, we don't give a shit anyway about the rule of law....
Alildotonearth
Jul 10 2008, 06:06 PM
QUOTE (TapDuncan @ Jul 10 2008, 05:56 PM)

Fucking arrest this prick already, if not, then I will never appear in court ever again, I will cite KKKarl's argument, that I'm too important to show up. What a scourge this guy is on AMerica, not to mention how he makes us look in the eyes of the world, inviting more terrists to wreak havoc on us, because hey, we don't give a shit anyway about the rule of law....
Since when in the history of America did our White House have a Minister of Political Propaganda ? And an uneducated Minister of Propaganda, Lumpy the Clown, The Architurd himself, Karl Rove to my knoweledge has never acheived a College Diploma. He was a College to College drifter. So he is the all time Republican Party "Guru" huh ? And McCain still employs this guy's proteges ? Fuck McCain, why not re-hire that Ken Melonhead too ? True or false, if the President's rating go lower, we will win this war ? Fuck the Iraqis or United Nations Security Agreements, they don't count right ?
LOSER !!!
pssssst, sore losers too, King Babies, everything has to be their way.
fade in Frankie baby, "I did it Karl's way, ooops, I mean my way..."
cocotroll
Jul 10 2008, 06:13 PM
QUOTE (TapDuncan @ Jul 10 2008, 05:56 PM)

Fucking arrest this prick already, if not, then I will never appear in court ever again, I will cite KKKarl's argument, that I'm too important to show up. What a scourge this guy is on AMerica, not to mention how he makes us look in the eyes of the world, inviting more terrists to wreak havoc on us, because hey, we don't give a shit anyway about the rule of law....
I'll pose as your boss and assert "executive privelage!"
X-Ray-Spex
Jul 10 2008, 06:19 PM
Dan-From-LA
Jul 10 2008, 06:59 PM
QUOTE (Seeker1 @ Jul 10 2008, 12:37 PM)

http://news.medill.northwestern.edu/washin...s.aspx?id=35077How does a congressional subpoena work?
[snip]
What if they don’t show up?
If a witness refuses to appear before Congress, he can be held in contempt of Congress. A scorned House or Senate committee could approve a contempt charge, send it along to the full chamber and eventually to the U.S. attorney for prosecution.
If the recalcitrant witness is found guilty, he can be fined or sentenced to up to 12 months in jail.
Since 1975, about 12 people have been held in contempt of Congress. Only one of those went to trial; Environmental Protection Agency official Rita Lavelle was found not guilty on the contempt charge.
[snip]
Rove could be a first - if the Dems have some balls.
We have basically become a banana republic with no law, when the government cannot even function at this minimum of lawfullness. We are kidding ourselves about just how dsyfunctional things have become. It's bad. Shit like this doesn't happen in other first world countries. The Shock Doctrine is working to desensitize us and make us ask long winded questions about how subpeona's work, etc. Not the point. The fact that government officials of the highest level can get away with this kind of contempt means things have gone very, very wrong.
bushwa
Jul 10 2008, 07:00 PM
QUOTE (X-Ray-Spex @ Jul 10 2008, 03:44 PM)

Hey, XRS, cool
link. I'd hate for folks to miss it because they didn't realize it was there.
NOTE: Disturbing, graphic images.
brotherdavid
Jul 10 2008, 07:07 PM
TapDuncan
Jul 10 2008, 07:10 PM
Dan---Right on, so correct!!!
RandiLover
Jul 10 2008, 07:28 PM
They gutted the "Bill of Rights", there is no law they wish to obey, only marching orders from the corporations. There is no one to pick up Rove. He and his band of pirates just took down the Constitution. It is all just a nice show on the telly at this point and time. Would the last standing American please take the flag down. This really does break my heart. I can't even eat a tomato or have salsa now days without risking my life. It will go good with my mad cow burger. How was I supposed to know that the FDA was the Foreign Defense Agency?
Myoho
Jul 10 2008, 07:39 PM
UPDATE:
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Rove_disses_...na_to_0710.htmlDuring the hearing, Rep. Chris Cannon (R-UT) revealed that Rove was out of the country. According to the liberal blog ThinkProgress, Rove's lawyer's confirmed that Rove was out of the country on trip scheduled long before the subpoena was sent.
Karl Rove failed to appear before the House Judiciary subcommittee. His lawyer revealed that he was out of the country.
stinemetz
Jul 10 2008, 08:00 PM
QUOTE (QBC @ Jul 10 2008, 05:30 PM)

In an earlier post Fellixe supplied the following CRS link regarding Congress’s Contempt Power: Law, History,
Practice, and Procedure. Rather than reciting your left wing talking points, you might do well to give the document a read.
As The Against the Carle Rove Plan From The Beginning Man.
Carle Rove is The Fugitive Renegade In The Open And The Culprit Media Will Certainly Give Him Aid And Comfort.
Has All Accountability And Constitutional Authority Been Seized And Is Justice to reprieve the immune to justice That’s what Disgust us.
And timing Is everything And Now Its Time To Go after the Executive Authority Oligarchy Supreme fatuity.
Its Time For Reality And Stop The Constitutional Feudality With Constitutional Fidelity
RandiLover
Jul 10 2008, 08:12 PM
Why should he show up? Who is going to arrest him? If he broke a law we just pass an edict by the Emperor and pardon him. He has talk shows to do, money to be made. He can write a book on how to take down a 230+ year old nation, kind of a how to do book with cool pictures and nice places to color in with the latest crayons. I am just curious how much the White House will be worth when they sell that to Dubai? How much will we need, to repay the debt of our old nation, once our nation is auctioned off? Do you think the foreign interests will let our credit card to go over 10 trillion? Who is going to own us? Is the fiddle playing yet?
QBC
Jul 10 2008, 08:39 PM
QUOTE (5by5 @ Jul 10 2008, 04:35 PM)

Peak/QBC,
Pestone already addressed this:
The only one repeating "talking points" is you, Peak.
The actual law is on our side. All the Congress has to do is dare to follow it.
Pestone provided his opinion, which he is entitled to. However, his opinion is not fact and thus it is not settled.
There is no precident for Congress arresting an administration officical for contempt after citing executive priveledge. If you have a link disputing this, please provide it.
Congress has no authority to arrest Rove and they know it. As a student of political science, I can't believe you don't know it as well.
shoreke
Jul 10 2008, 08:45 PM
Karl Rove has exposed the utter impotence of John Conyers. As Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, Conyers has the authority to issue an arrest warrant for Rove and have his ass forcibly brought in to answer the subpoena. Unfortunately, Canyers has manifested the backbone of a salamander and the balls of a eunuch. Does it surprise anybody that public approval rating of the US Congress is down in the single digits? George Bush has a approval rating than Congress!
RandiLover
Jul 10 2008, 08:47 PM
QUOTE (QBC @ Jul 10 2008, 06:04 PM)

Pestone provided his opinion, which he is entitled to. However, his opinion is not fact and thus it is not settled.
There is no precident for Congress arresting an administration officical for contempt after citing executive priveledge. If you have a link disputing this, please provide it.
Congress has no authority to arrest Rove and they know it. As a student of political science, I can't believe you don't know it as well.
Ya... and what's congress know about law?
RandiLover
Jul 10 2008, 08:58 PM
The approval ratings almost equal their IQ. He is out of the country, he is in New Mexico. Do we have an extradition treaty with them?
Alildotonearth
Jul 10 2008, 09:07 PM
QUOTE (RandiLover @ Jul 10 2008, 09:23 PM)

The approval ratings almost equal their IQ. He is out of the country, he is in New Mexico. Do we have an extradition treaty with them?
They got that 50 cent law down there don't they ?
stinemetz
Jul 10 2008, 09:11 PM
QUOTE
There are government sponsored programs that allow an individual to get their GED. Additionally there are government sponsored programs for that individual to learn a new trade so that they can get a better paying job.
And My Kids Graduated College. So My debt To society Has Been Paid in return Would You Say.
Now
Just By The Non Divulgation Of The Facts The Value Of The Dollar Has Been Cut In Half And The Republicans Chances Are Falling Just As Fast.
RandiLover
Jul 10 2008, 09:14 PM
QUOTE (Alildotonearth @ Jul 10 2008, 06:32 PM)

They got that 50 cent law down there don't they ?
Ok, you got me on this one, what is the 50 cent law?
Alildotonearth
Jul 10 2008, 09:19 PM
QUOTE (RandiLover @ Jul 10 2008, 09:39 PM)

Ok, you got me on this one, what is the 50 cent law?
Cost of one bullet. I don't know if these political hacks making a living setting up Hitler Youth Rallies as campaign events really understand how pissed off the country is right now. They seem to live in this bubble that may ignore these ratings ? Some of them like Rove, show this strange disconnect with reality to me at times. They know how to keep their heads down but then again their egos seem to make them act really stupid at times. Ya know, I see this black mustang pulling up beside a guy down in Florida for example. Ever hear the story of Suncruz Lines ?
Am sure Senator Ben Nelson knows the story. Wonder how many times Nelson could make Cheney say "Fuck you" ?
You know, is McCain over the edge talking about mental recessions, maybe he needs rest.
fla1sun
Jul 10 2008, 09:20 PM
QUOTE (Myoho @ Jul 10 2008, 07:04 PM)

UPDATE:
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Rove_disses_...na_to_0710.htmlDuring the hearing, Rep. Chris Cannon (R-UT) revealed that Rove was out of the country. According to the liberal blog ThinkProgress, Rove's lawyer's confirmed that Rove was out of the country on trip scheduled long before the subpoena was sent.
Karl Rove failed to appear before the House Judiciary subcommittee. His lawyer revealed that he was out of the country.
He was served months ago. Curious that neither rove or his attorney informed the committee before today that he would be out of the country or make an attempt to reschedule the appearance.
Where's that damned phone number....everybody call and raise hell that the man be arrested and brought before the committee.
QBC
Jul 10 2008, 09:38 PM
QUOTE (stinemetz @ Jul 10 2008, 08:36 PM)

And My Kids Graduated College. So My debt To society Has Been Paid in return Would You Say.
Now
Just By The Non Divulgation Of The Facts The Value Of The Dollar Has Been Cut In Half And The Republicans Chances Are Falling Just As Fast.
Got your threads mixed up.
nneptune
Jul 10 2008, 10:08 PM
Embarrassment.
Words can't describe the disgrace of Bush Cheney, and PigFace...
No wonder we're the joke of the world..
RandiLover
Jul 10 2008, 10:18 PM
Well, look at it this way, we can now sell ice to Eskimos, it doesn't grow free anymore.
nneptune
Jul 10 2008, 10:25 PM
QUOTE (adamquestor @ Jul 7 2008, 08:10 PM)

Are you kidding? Congress will do nothing - useless, spineless bunch. Why do you think I keep saying the US will break up by 2010? If the Fed government can't handle this minor problem, how can they possibly handle the complete collapse of the credit and banking infrastructure?
I agree. They're useless.
I, too, feel that this country is doomed. I do.
Alildotonearth
Jul 10 2008, 10:31 PM
QUOTE (RandiLover @ Jul 10 2008, 10:43 PM)

Well, look at it this way, we can now sell ice to Eskimos, it doesn't grow free anymore.
Or, I look forward to growing citrus crops in Upstate New York, it's all good.
progladie
Jul 10 2008, 10:56 PM
Come November I may be voting for Obama absentee from another country. I don't see living in a dictatorship so enticing as long as I hold a valid passport.
Clearly Congress has decided to sit on their hands once again and do nothing. Let this be remembered when these chicken-hearts* are up for reelection.
*as usual with the exception of Barbara Lee, of course.
RandiLover
Jul 10 2008, 11:25 PM
QUOTE (progladie @ Jul 10 2008, 08:21 PM)

Come November I may be voting for Obama absentee from another country. I don't see living in a dictatorship so enticing as long as I hold a valid passport.
Clearly Congress has decided to sit on their hands once again and do nothing. Let this be remembered when these chicken-hearts* are up for reelection.
*as usual with the exception of Barbara Lee, of course.
Damn, is that George Carlin when he got busted?
Christine
Jul 11 2008, 12:05 AM
QUOTE (QBC @ Jul 7 2008, 07:04 PM)

Congress has the ability to hold someone in contempt of congress, but has no power to arrest an individual.
Correct! they can call for his arrest but have to send this guy to do the deed....
Wilson S. Livingood, Sergeant at Arms of the U.S. House of Representatives
cocotroll
Jul 11 2008, 07:18 AM
QUOTE (Christine @ Jul 11 2008, 12:30 AM)

Correct! they can call for his arrest but have to send this guy to do the deed....
Wilson S. Livingood, Sergeant at Arms of the U.S. House of Representatives

Oh my God! We are in bigger trouble than I thought!
Deke
Jul 11 2008, 09:16 AM
[quote name='Christine' date='Jul 11 2008, 12:30 AM' post='69978']
Correct! they can call for his arrest but have to send this guy to do the deed....
Wilson S. Livingood, Sergeant at Arms of the U.S. House of Representatives
I believe the US Marshals Service can serve the warrant or the Sergeant at arms can deputize someone-not sure though.
However I take issue with John Conyer's giving every bushco members an additional five days to show up. Sorry John but that's not a good idea-and tell Pelosi to stop micromanaging the committee
IVEATCH
Jul 11 2008, 09:32 AM
I do not believe that the Sergeant at Arms of the House of Representatives has the power to deputize. House Speaker Newt Gingrich tried to have the ability of deputizing granted to the House SAA but decided not to after a study concluded that it was more than likely unconstitutional due to the separation of powers act. I still looking for the link on that. I thought I saved it (the website address) but I can't seem to locate it.
Best Regards,
IVEATCH
Jul 11 2008, 09:38 AM
The story about some DEMOCRATS being arrested by the House Sergeant at Arms ............ back in 1906 .......
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html...9639C946797D6CFBest Haling of House Members,
stinemetz
Jul 11 2008, 11:37 AM
QUOTE (QBC @ Jul 10 2008, 10:03 PM)

Got your threads mixed up.

Ya i did
5by5
Jul 11 2008, 12:12 PM
I wonder about the legal ramifications of the fact that he also left the country while under a lawful subpoena. Wouldn't that strictly qualify as a flight from justice with additional attendent penalties?
thomasBean
Jul 11 2008, 03:11 PM
QUOTE (RealLiberal1 @ Jul 7 2008, 10:49 PM)

Or stage a terrorist attack in the US.

Isn't that what CARNABY in Houston was trying to prevent?
Isn't that why BLACKWATER was at Minot when the nuke was loaded?
Fellixe
Jul 12 2008, 02:11 AM
Sorry, no link to back this up yet. But this was being discussed on Thom Hartmann's show and he referenced that the jail in the basement of Congress has actually been remodeled out of existence. In addition, the ability of Congress to enforce it's own subpeonas or arrest anyone directly may not be unconstitutional, but has been legislated away in the acts that created statutory criminal contempt as a compromise that depended on the good faith of the Executive to carry out that responsibility without bias. So it sems a repeal of that in some form would be necessary before Congress would have any option other than to rely on the DOJ to handle their business for them.
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