Here's one aspect of Mcrazies support of re-introduction of the draft, this time it will include women. How does that sit with ya'll? I served with plenty of women, and found most of them to be honorable. But what about all of the women who thought they had it good, and wars are to be fought by men? Or the others who want to be in the thick of things? How will the draft affect our country? How many women will sign up out of patriotic duty? How many others will shy away from an illegal invasion? How many will people will understand that a draft is an excuse to fund, in bodies, an excuse to prove their righteousness? The draft works both ways, who is willing to support an illegal war with their bodies, against their bodies's will. When the RW can't win, they throw in more bodies to die, thus making it seem that we need more bodies to die, where does it end?

Help us all.

that'd put an end to the support from the young republicans eh.

if he instituted a no fault draft, no deferments at all, we would never have another war...

the motivation for politicians to use diplomacy when it is their son and grandson, daughter and granddaughters life at stake would be astounding, stunning...

Then they better start organizing these:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_Gangs

I couldn't find a video illustrating the actual practice of the Press Gang, but think Royal Navy in the Napoleonic Wars. How appropriate for Jonah, the old Navy man. I wonder how long it'll take him to bring back that other nautical tradition from the era, the flogging with a cat-'o-nine-tails.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLaR2_Zhw30

if women want to serve, i think that is their right however if a women doesn't want to serve then i think the government is crazy to try to make her. personally i'd purposely become pregnant.

The irony is, when I was younger I really WANTED to serve (in fact ROTC offered me a free ride for college), but I didn't think it was right to ask me to lie about who I am, just to be able to do that.

The secondary irony is, no matter how much they flat out need bodies in the field now, that Republican dumbass probably STILL wouldn't let me enlist openly, even though I have far more in experience and leadership skills now than I did even back then.

Stupid. Really stupid.

If this is true we are in big big trouble because he is McNuts a draft. This Man is unfit to be President!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This Country can not take this crap ANYMORE.

Remember though that we gays are not fit to serve in McCain's military. We would lower moral or whatever. We're not full American's. Can't serve our country, can't get married. But our gay tax dollars seem equal with straight tax dollars. Go figure. (Excuse the rant. )

My theory though is that there would never be a draft under a Republican administration because how would their military contractor buddies make any money? That's why McInsane wants endless wars, so he can continue to line the pockets of his defense industry buds.

Dan-- I served with many gay men, and not one, ONE was less than courageous, let alone honorable. What I have always questioned is the concept of why can't a gay man or woman be as in love with their country as a straight man or woman? And wouldn't having someone who fought so hard to be included be more inclined to help me than someone who didn't? maybe it would be different if we had a draft, but in this day and age, I see no difference, and besides, who get's to be the one who dictates what is and what is not patriotism? Surely the founding fathers would've said no one...

You forgot no equal employment rights in 38 states.

Funny thing, all of the Young Conservatives of Texas here at UNT... NONE of them served in the military.

Someday I'll ask for their reasons why they couldn't put up or shut up.

actually, I think it's a fear that gay soldiers would rape straight male soldiers.

Nevermind we have more waivers for convicts of violent crimes than ever before.

It's really sad that people say they aren't homophobic when it really is.

I have already cried about this. Bush/McCain cannot have my daughter. Over my dead body.


About war:
"The powers of Isengard will spread and all that was green and good will be gone." (from The Lord of the Rings)

In that story, there was worth to defeating the vile bloodthirsty Orcs, bred only for war -- destroying the world of men, the only goal. What war has been worthy of that lately?


But yet again, these are fear and smear tactics from the crazed, desperate McCain - as Remberearth intimated, it will backfire politically.

Rememberearth said:

It's even sadder when homophobes can't admit they are homosexuals when they really are.

I used to be opposed to the draft, but I changed my mind. If the U.S. is going to go to war, I think a draft is important. I don't like that right now, many of our soldiers that are serving are in the military because they needed a job. I don't like that most people don't seem to be fully aware that we are at war. A draft puts people in a situation of needing to pay attention to what the government is doing. I also support a constitutional amendment that would require that journalists be permitted to operate independently in theater, and for it to be an act of treason to interfere with that access, and the duties of journalists. The closest thing to combat that most Americans experience these days is getting mauled at the mall on Christmas Eve. We are too removed from the consequences and reality of war.
I'm not sure, yet, how I feel about female citizens being drafted. Most girls are sissies, and we don't need girls in combat that close their eyes when they pull a trigger. Good Lord, it seems that half the females over 28 are single mothers, who will raise the children? The Evangelicals?

So are you saying we need to have constant wars this country can't afford more wars. 12 Billion Dollars a month is insane. Who is going to pay for this crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and they say Dems are tax and spend idiots These Repugs spend money like it's water and get rich in the process and the get the American people in to a heap of sh*t!!!!!!!!!! They don't care just as long as they can make the almighty fcking buck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A blast from the recent past:

If you are talking to me, which I really have no reason to believe that you are...but I will speak for myself on your comment.
I would only support a war of necessity. When a conflict is entered, even without a declaration of war, we must have a draft because that's the only thing that will engage the public. That's the only thing that will put all eyes on the executive branch. Look at what we are doing to the world, and Americans are going about their business as though nothing has changed. Here we are, bankrupt and an enemy of the planet and people are shopping for trinkets. It's insane.
During the Vietnam war, the public was well aware of what was going on. Every night the whole nation, as a family, sat in reverent attention to the news. Eyes searching news reels from the battlefield for the faces, ears tuned for the voices, of our friends and loved ones. Jaws clenched, hearts aching, tears falling. Then came the outrage. That's why we don't have a draft now. That's why we are told to shop. We don't see, we don't hear, we don't know...much to the delight of the military industrial complex.
I support a strong, prepared military but I am anti-war.

I called the recruiter's office at a local military base not long after we invaded Afghanistan and told them that the Young Republican's meet at the local book store, and gave the day and time. He said he would be waiting for them every meeting

"To delight in war is a merit in the soldier, a dangerous quality in the captain, and a positive crime in the statesman."

--George Santayana

Welcome to the boards

Can't go - I'm already "out" as one of Teh Gay.

Thank you for the welcome, Stoon....I suppose I should have introduced myself formally.

On the other hand, I do expect the gnomish Inquisition. Half-elven Ranger, you see.

I already served 6 years active. They gotta draft cripples, old folks and...you before they can get me back in.

I'm really ambivalent about the draft question. My best friend's grandson is scheduled for his fifth tour in Iraq beginning in December. It seems to me that the only people who are taking this criminal war seriously are those who have a loved one who somehow got themselves caught in the unrelenting, unforgiving and uncaring tentacles of the Pentagon by signing up somewhere, somehow for some reason as a "volunteer." Maybe a draft would make the rest of the country pay a little more attention to what the "unending war against terrorism" proclaimed by Bush after 9/11 really means. Maybe it would even motivate them to demand an end to it. (After all, you still can't wage war against a tactic.)

Exactly. At the very least, the sons and daughters of those who are profiting from this war need to contribute some skin to this war they worship.

my point exactly!

that is awesome!
"teh internetz"

Let me tell you something, I am 30 and a MARRIED mom, and I can shoot a gun just fine, thankyouverymuch. My husband on the other hand has never held a weapon and I SERIOUSLY doubt he could pull a trigger without closing his eyes. There are MANY women in the military (I even know a few I would consider to be quite "girly") and they do a FANTASTIC job.

Personally, I think that if a draft is instituted then it is only fair that women be included. This is after all a manifestation of equality that we have fought for. I HATE the idea of a draft, for any reason other than that it would put a stop to this war by making it hit closer to home.

Jettibo--You said it better than I ever could. It hit's close to home. That's why I started this thread, because traditionally we think of the draft as men only, but that would not be the case nowadays. So we need to think this thru. My mother would like nothing better than to have her only adopted son martyed in a war, because she is a rw tool. I, on the other hand have a plan for my life, so she get's trumped by my plans, and I receive her dire. Even though I already served, she thinks of having a dead son from an illegal war a medal of honor. So sick and twisted. My father and grandfather served twice each. Plus my dad's side of the family is Jewish, and lost most of their family to the Nazi's and are against war, yet my mother thinks it's great. Talk about opposites attracting, shit there it is. I know women are just as patriotic as men, but where do you draw the line btwn. zealots and people who need a break without having to put their lives on the line? Just asking.

Absolutely! But considering the overall population of women, I think most are sissies.

I would tend to agree. And I would happily serve -- if allowed to OPENLY and HONESTLY. And I'm a heckuva shot too.

But I would also only expect from my government what I know ALL servicemembers expect from their government.

That if you're going to not only send me into harm's way (which frankly doesn't scare me - we start dying the moment we're born) but also are going to ask me to kill for you (which in my book is asking me to sacrifice literally thousands of rebirths to pay for every life I take - justified or not), then you DAMN WELL BETTER BE SURE that whatever fight you're sending me into is righteous and just, or don't send me at all.

Don't expect me to take life carelessly or for your idiotic profits.

And the sad truth is, you couldn't PAY me to serve under one of these new batch of neocon Republicans (Ike? Sure. McCain, Get a grip).

I'd defend me and mine under direct threat, but no way are you sending me off to fight and kill other poor people on the other side of the Earth just so you can get your rocks off and compensate for your having a small dick. To hell with that.

In the 80's I was worried about war. Being I was fresh out of the Navy reserve, I was going to be the first to be grabbed. The last thing I ever wanted was to go though boot camp again, that sucked. At least if they took me down, I would go with 100 mill worth of ship. I look at my nephews and wonder what kind of world are we setting up for them. War sucks, being a tool for the government is not fun.