Someone explain to me what this Code Pink demonstrator did to deserve this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfISlq1gzK8
Full Version: Denver Gestopo in action
She posed a potential threat to the Military Industrial Complex, which the police are sworn to protect over the interests of the We The People.
QUOTE (adamquestor @ Aug 28 2008, 12:08 PM) 
She posed a potential threat to the Military Industrial Complex, which the police are sworn to protect over the interests of the We The People.
When they can just walk up to you and grab you from a crowd that is concerning, not to mention clubbing you in the face for standing there.
The comments people are leaving under that video are truly disturbing. 
Malloy's been talking about the thuggish things that are happening around the conventions, and how the Dems are letting it happen. And as usual, he's absolutely right.
OK both times were wack.
The first time he pushed her so hard I wondered if her head had actually slammed into the concrete. She's got herself a lawsuit right there, because she was nowhere near the vehicle in question that they were trying to move people out of the way of, indeed she was to the side of it, and at least 12-15 feet away at that.
And the second time, she was in the middle of an interview, after somehow recovering from that blow, and was grabbed SOLELY because she was talking about it.
The individuals who engaged in both actions should be bounced from the force on their ass inside of about the next two seconds.
That WAS excessive force, not merely crowd control.
I will defend the police when they behave honorably, I will not when they do not.
THAT was not honorable.
The first time he pushed her so hard I wondered if her head had actually slammed into the concrete. She's got herself a lawsuit right there, because she was nowhere near the vehicle in question that they were trying to move people out of the way of, indeed she was to the side of it, and at least 12-15 feet away at that.
And the second time, she was in the middle of an interview, after somehow recovering from that blow, and was grabbed SOLELY because she was talking about it.
The individuals who engaged in both actions should be bounced from the force on their ass inside of about the next two seconds.
That WAS excessive force, not merely crowd control.
I will defend the police when they behave honorably, I will not when they do not.
THAT was not honorable.
QUOTE (5by5 @ Aug 28 2008, 02:07 PM)
OK both times were wack.
The first time he pushed her so hard I wondered if her head had actually slammed into the concrete. She's got herself a lawsuit right there, because she was nowhere near the vehicle in question that they were trying to move people out of the way of, indeed she was to the side of it, and at least 12-15 feet away at that.
And the second time, she was in the middle of an interview, after somehow recovering from that blow, and was grabbed SOLELY because she was talking about it.
The individuals who engaged in both actions should be bounced from the force on their ass inside of about the next two seconds.
That WAS excessive force, not merely crowd control.
I will defend the police when they behave honorably, I will not when they do not.
THAT was not honorable.
The first time he pushed her so hard I wondered if her head had actually slammed into the concrete. She's got herself a lawsuit right there, because she was nowhere near the vehicle in question that they were trying to move people out of the way of, indeed she was to the side of it, and at least 12-15 feet away at that.
And the second time, she was in the middle of an interview, after somehow recovering from that blow, and was grabbed SOLELY because she was talking about it.
The individuals who engaged in both actions should be bounced from the force on their ass inside of about the next two seconds.
That WAS excessive force, not merely crowd control.
I will defend the police when they behave honorably, I will not when they do not.
THAT was not honorable.
I hope Randi sees that video. When a caller said something to her about this kind of thing going on, it was as if she didn't believe him.
QUOTE (raye @ Aug 28 2008, 11:32 AM)
it was as if she didn't believe him.
No, it was that his description of events, meant that police action was merited.
He said to her, "Protesters charged the police and they got beat down."
Well duh.
That is not the case here. What you have here are one or two bad apples in the Denver PD getting out of hand and acting like jackasses. (You'll notice most of the officers around these two guys were more restrained.)
The abusive officers are either Republicans, or just plain tired and grumpy. Either way, they need to be taken off the line by their captain before they do more harm.
IMO, the woman was a bit stupid. The moment she hit the pavement she should've gone limp and called for an ambulance for a broken neck/back and then developed about $2.5 million worth of severe, permanent, and disabling soft-tissue neuromuscular damage. If it's a non-provoked action caught (even cell-phone) on video, a good lawyer is gonna want it. She could've been effectively retired tomorrow on Denver's dime.
Oh well....
Oh well....
QUOTE (LibLaw @ Aug 28 2008, 11:24 AM)
When they can just walk up to you and grab you from a crowd that is concerning, not to mention clubbing you in the face for standing there.
When the US became a fascist dictatorship in 2000, this is one of the results.
Pay a little more attention to details.
When the video clip starts, the police are directing the crowd to "Move away from the vehicle."
The next words heard are from the protestor, saying something like "I won't do it again," or "I will do it again." The audio quality and my ears are such that I can't be sure which, but it matters less in this case than it normally would because either interpretation would indicate that she had done something that had already pissed off at least one cop.
The cops were standing in a line betwen the protestors and the vehicle. There appears to have been someone restraining the woman from behind, probably someone friendly to her and concerned that she might get into it with the cops.
She then advances on the police line. At this time, she is acting in opposition to police instructions to stay out of the way of an arrest in progress, and headed toward an area to which the police had barred access. She was dressed oddly, she was aggitated. She was carrying objects that looked as though they could be used as weapons. Did you see that pink bullhorn on the ground? That has to weigh at least a couple pounds. Having stood on both sides of a riot line both in training and in real life, I would have to consider the cop to have had damned good reason to consider her a threat. Don't give me any crap about a little female being no threat to a big old cop. The best rioter role player I know is female, about five foot nuthin and 120 pounds. The last time I worked with her, she came away from the riot line with a couple M-16 mags and a few linked rounds of SAW ammo. Being female gets this Code Pink lady no sympathy from me.
The cop was holding his baton at about rib cage level, parallel to the ground. When she advbanced on the line, he extended his arms uniformly, striking her just under the rib cage. I have gotten hit like that a lot. It is stunning, but not usually injurious unless the person hit thus is incredibly fragile. For my size and age, I would have to consider myself fragile and prone to bone fractures. I am not going to shed a lot of tears if that is the most discomfort the protestor can take without going into melt-down.
This was the way that the cop was trained to repell anyone trying to cross a police line. It distributes the impact over a fairly wide area, thus reducing the possibility of blunt force trauma. It eliminates the need to actually lay hands on a rioter, thus reducing the possibility of further disruption of the police line. If the police line breaks apart, you get a melee in which it is harder to tell who is an actor in the incident and who is trying to get out of the way. Notice that after shoving the woamn away, the cop remains in formation with his baton again up to his chest in a ready position. He makes no further menacing movement toward anyone. He does not consider her a threrat and has, therefore, no cause to whack her. THAT would be assault. That she was attempting to cross the police line would indicate that her intentions were such that she would have had to have made contact with any cop who did not move out of her way. THAT is assault and interfering with a police officer in performance of his duties in most jurisdictions.
After she gets off the ground, showing no signs of injury, but still displaying an agitated state of mind, she is talking with other persons who seem agitated as well, within arm's rerach of the police line, and starts pointing her hand across the line. That is when the cops came out to grab her. No one brandishes a baton. The line remains in formation, with batons at the ready close to their chests.
These men did exactly as they were trained to do, and they exercised proper restrain by not making any aggressive moves on people who could by not be clearly identified as a threat. Pink lady was clearly a threat. She was pissed off, she had been repelled once from crossing the line and it looked like she was going to do it again. Removing her from the area was the only rational course for the cops to take. She hasn't a leg to stand on, if they bother trying her for obstructing a police officer. If they want to be really shitty about it, they could probably get her for inciting to riot. I would consider that extreme.
There were WACoffs under the leadership of Alex Jones in Denver specificly to cause disruptions during the convention. I am sure that they had been advised to whatch for his crew of jerks. How likely is it that the cops had ever heard of Code Pink or known what they were about? All they saw at the scene of this incident was an aggitated wwhackadoodle in a pionk fairy princess outfit with a bullhorn in her hand sticking her nose into things that were none of her business.
From Police Science 101. crazy people are potentially dangerous.
When the video clip starts, the police are directing the crowd to "Move away from the vehicle."
The next words heard are from the protestor, saying something like "I won't do it again," or "I will do it again." The audio quality and my ears are such that I can't be sure which, but it matters less in this case than it normally would because either interpretation would indicate that she had done something that had already pissed off at least one cop.
The cops were standing in a line betwen the protestors and the vehicle. There appears to have been someone restraining the woman from behind, probably someone friendly to her and concerned that she might get into it with the cops.
She then advances on the police line. At this time, she is acting in opposition to police instructions to stay out of the way of an arrest in progress, and headed toward an area to which the police had barred access. She was dressed oddly, she was aggitated. She was carrying objects that looked as though they could be used as weapons. Did you see that pink bullhorn on the ground? That has to weigh at least a couple pounds. Having stood on both sides of a riot line both in training and in real life, I would have to consider the cop to have had damned good reason to consider her a threat. Don't give me any crap about a little female being no threat to a big old cop. The best rioter role player I know is female, about five foot nuthin and 120 pounds. The last time I worked with her, she came away from the riot line with a couple M-16 mags and a few linked rounds of SAW ammo. Being female gets this Code Pink lady no sympathy from me.
The cop was holding his baton at about rib cage level, parallel to the ground. When she advbanced on the line, he extended his arms uniformly, striking her just under the rib cage. I have gotten hit like that a lot. It is stunning, but not usually injurious unless the person hit thus is incredibly fragile. For my size and age, I would have to consider myself fragile and prone to bone fractures. I am not going to shed a lot of tears if that is the most discomfort the protestor can take without going into melt-down.
This was the way that the cop was trained to repell anyone trying to cross a police line. It distributes the impact over a fairly wide area, thus reducing the possibility of blunt force trauma. It eliminates the need to actually lay hands on a rioter, thus reducing the possibility of further disruption of the police line. If the police line breaks apart, you get a melee in which it is harder to tell who is an actor in the incident and who is trying to get out of the way. Notice that after shoving the woamn away, the cop remains in formation with his baton again up to his chest in a ready position. He makes no further menacing movement toward anyone. He does not consider her a threrat and has, therefore, no cause to whack her. THAT would be assault. That she was attempting to cross the police line would indicate that her intentions were such that she would have had to have made contact with any cop who did not move out of her way. THAT is assault and interfering with a police officer in performance of his duties in most jurisdictions.
After she gets off the ground, showing no signs of injury, but still displaying an agitated state of mind, she is talking with other persons who seem agitated as well, within arm's rerach of the police line, and starts pointing her hand across the line. That is when the cops came out to grab her. No one brandishes a baton. The line remains in formation, with batons at the ready close to their chests.
These men did exactly as they were trained to do, and they exercised proper restrain by not making any aggressive moves on people who could by not be clearly identified as a threat. Pink lady was clearly a threat. She was pissed off, she had been repelled once from crossing the line and it looked like she was going to do it again. Removing her from the area was the only rational course for the cops to take. She hasn't a leg to stand on, if they bother trying her for obstructing a police officer. If they want to be really shitty about it, they could probably get her for inciting to riot. I would consider that extreme.
There were WACoffs under the leadership of Alex Jones in Denver specificly to cause disruptions during the convention. I am sure that they had been advised to whatch for his crew of jerks. How likely is it that the cops had ever heard of Code Pink or known what they were about? All they saw at the scene of this incident was an aggitated wwhackadoodle in a pionk fairy princess outfit with a bullhorn in her hand sticking her nose into things that were none of her business.
From Police Science 101. crazy people are potentially dangerous.
I still think she's an idiot for not developing $2.5 million worth of sof-tissue neuromuscular damage.
QUOTE (adamquestor @ Aug 29 2008, 03:26 PM)
I still think she's an idiot for not developing $2.5 million worth of sof-tissue neuromuscular damage.
You know...its damn if you do and damned if you don't. So the police get caught assaulting someone (because WE CARRY VIDEO CAMERAS) and the city has to pay the damages.
Cities and towns are going broke...they won't have enough money to pay the damages...
Then the only solution is to get rid of the problem so the courts won't demand payments for damages, right?
buh bye police force!!!
QUOTE (Morgan @ Aug 29 2008, 02:30 PM)
You know...its damn if you do and damned if you don't. So the police get caught assaulting someone (because WE CARRY VIDEO CAMERAS) and the city has to pay the damages.
Cities and towns are going broke...they won't have enough money to pay the damages...
Then the only solution is to get rid of the problem so the courts won't demand payments for damages, right?
buh bye police force!!!
Cities and towns are going broke...they won't have enough money to pay the damages...
Then the only solution is to get rid of the problem so the courts won't demand payments for damages, right?
buh bye police force!!!
NY will be paying for over the next 20 years on the settlement from 2004.
The vast majority of the cops are rent a cops, only deputized for this week. He was probably one of them. They are notoriously ill trained.
Screw Critical Mass. There is no inherent right to cause disruptions of traffic. It is a threat to public safety.
The cop had decided that standing in the middle of the street was not where he needed to be. The bicycle, when it enters the screen, is moving at an angle to intersect the path of the officer. The officer seems to me to have slowed somewhat before taking down the cyclist. The course on which the bike was moving was off the course on which he should really have been travelling unless, for some reason, he intended to optimize the confusion and obstruction he created.
The cop had decided that standing in the middle of the street was not where he needed to be. The bicycle, when it enters the screen, is moving at an angle to intersect the path of the officer. The officer seems to me to have slowed somewhat before taking down the cyclist. The course on which the bike was moving was off the course on which he should really have been travelling unless, for some reason, he intended to optimize the confusion and obstruction he created.
QUOTE (TapDuncan @ Aug 29 2008, 02:42 PM)
The vast majority of the cops are rent a cops, only deputized for this week. He was probably one of them. They are notoriously ill trained.
And if they're also under-insured there's no city attorney in the world who can stop an experienced ambulance chaser. Denver might as well open its checkbook and start writing for the next 25 years.
QUOTE (leftysergeant @ Aug 29 2008, 02:44 PM)
Screw Critical Mass. There is no inherent right to cause disruptions of traffic. It is a threat to public safety.
The cop had decided that standing in the middle of the street was not where he needed to be. The bicycle, when it enters the screen, is moving at an angle to intersect the path of the officer. The officer seems to me to have slowed somewhat before taking down the cyclist. The course on which the bike was moving was off the course on which he should really have been travelling unless, for some reason, he intended to optimize the confusion and obstruction he created.
The cop had decided that standing in the middle of the street was not where he needed to be. The bicycle, when it enters the screen, is moving at an angle to intersect the path of the officer. The officer seems to me to have slowed somewhat before taking down the cyclist. The course on which the bike was moving was off the course on which he should really have been travelling unless, for some reason, he intended to optimize the confusion and obstruction he created.
Wait until the cyclist goes into the courtroom in a wheelchair/neckbrace with his sobbing wife and children and a long story of pain and suffering - oh, about $22 million worth.
Experienced laywers LOVE this kind of insensitivity - they use it to tarnish the city and to put the cop's house on lis pendens if he's under-insured. Denver will settle for a sizable amount. My feeling: the cyclist just became a multi-millionaire.
QUOTE (TapDuncan @ Aug 29 2008, 12:42 PM)
The vast majority of the cops are rent a cops, only deputized for this week. He was probably one of them. They are notoriously ill trained.
Wrong.
The move he made was a text-book quality example of that defensive technique. As i mentioned, I have worked both sides of a riot line, sometimes as a protestor, some times as a role-player in training scenarios. The man did it professionally, and with great discipline. He repelled the whacko and stayed in formation. Damned well-trained. He did it right and with proper restraint. The pink lady was not within arms reach of him when the order was given to move away from the vehicle, but she was when she got blocked.
QUOTE (leftysergeant @ Aug 29 2008, 02:55 PM)
Wrong.
The move he made was a text-book quality example of that defensive technique. As i mentioned, I have worked both sides of a riot line, sometimes as a protestor, some times as a role-player in training scenarios. The man did it professionally, and with great discipline. He repelled the whacko and stayed in formation. Damned well-trained. He did it right and with proper restraint. The pink lady was not within arms reach of him when the order was given to move away from the vehicle, but she was when she got blocked.
The move he made was a text-book quality example of that defensive technique. As i mentioned, I have worked both sides of a riot line, sometimes as a protestor, some times as a role-player in training scenarios. The man did it professionally, and with great discipline. He repelled the whacko and stayed in formation. Damned well-trained. He did it right and with proper restraint. The pink lady was not within arms reach of him when the order was given to move away from the vehicle, but she was when she got blocked.
Blocked? you mean, in plaintiff's attorney's terms: viciously assaulted causing permanent pain, suffering, amnesia, inability to hold a normal job, family trauma, scarring requiring a lifetime of plastic surgery, permanent disability, a minimum of 15 years of physical therapy, all costing about $2.5 million plus attorney's fees. Did they include that in the "training?"
LS--I have not seen the video, I'm on dial up 'nuff said, but, I still know that most cops try their very best, but, there are some who are a bit overzealous, and they tend to be rent a cops. If you're in law enforcement, I take your word, and I think Adam has a point too. However without seeing the video, i cannot comment on it, if I did, I'd be a repig!!!
QUOTE (adamquestor @ Aug 29 2008, 01:06 PM)
Blocked? you mean, in plaintiff's attorney's terms: viciously assaulted causing permanent pain, suffering, amnesia, inability to hold a normal job, family trauma, scarring requiring a lifetime of plastic surgery, permanent disability, a minimum of 15 years of physical therapy, all costing about $2.5 million plus attorney's fees. Did they include that in the "training?"
I'm surprised that no one else has commented on Randi's glowing review of the police in Denver. They weren't wearing swat gear? She obviously hasn't seen the videos I'm seeing posted on youtube. What is she doing??? Of COURSE they are being nice to her. She's a press guest at the convention. I don't get it.
My public safety experiencve has been limited to fire fighting in the military, which included some riot control work and private security and, recently, role-playing in force protection, detainee operations, riot control and civil affairs training for the military.
I have attended some demonstrations as a protestor, including a rather large anti-war protest in Fayetteville North Carolina in early 1970 and a protest of the stolen election on inauguration day in Seattle in 2001. From either side of the police line, the woman's actions are indefensible.
It was none of her damned business who the indivdual being arrested was. She was in the way of the operation and thus a threat to public safety.
Most of the cops I saw were wearing only hard hats and face shields. Theyt had not lowered their face shields, anbd were thus in a relaxed defensive posture.If they had any body armor, it was apparently only ballistic vests under their uniforms. They had no riot shields. The bullhorn the lady was carrying could be considered a dangerous weapon.
As for any case for personal injury, the fool is on her own. She got up, she went on running her mouth with the possible intent of stirring up the crowd. She fit a threat profile. All her actions negate any claim that she was unfairly singled out for abuse.
I have attended some demonstrations as a protestor, including a rather large anti-war protest in Fayetteville North Carolina in early 1970 and a protest of the stolen election on inauguration day in Seattle in 2001. From either side of the police line, the woman's actions are indefensible.
It was none of her damned business who the indivdual being arrested was. She was in the way of the operation and thus a threat to public safety.
Most of the cops I saw were wearing only hard hats and face shields. Theyt had not lowered their face shields, anbd were thus in a relaxed defensive posture.If they had any body armor, it was apparently only ballistic vests under their uniforms. They had no riot shields. The bullhorn the lady was carrying could be considered a dangerous weapon.
As for any case for personal injury, the fool is on her own. She got up, she went on running her mouth with the possible intent of stirring up the crowd. She fit a threat profile. All her actions negate any claim that she was unfairly singled out for abuse.
QUOTE (leftysergeant @ Aug 29 2008, 01:50 PM)
My public safety experiencve has been limited to fire fighting in the military, which included some riot control work and private security and, recently, role-playing in force protection, detainee operations, riot control and civil affairs training for the military.
I have attended some demonstrations as a protestor, including a rather large anti-war protest in Fayetteville North Carolina in early 1970 and a protest of the stolen election on inauguration day in Seattle in 2001. From either side of the police line, the woman's actions are indefensible.
It was none of her damned business who the indivdual being arrested was. She was in the way of the operation and thus a threat to public safety.
Most of the cops I saw were wearing only hard hats and face shields. Theyt had not lowered their face shields, anbd were thus in a relaxed defensive posture.If they had any body armor, it was apparently only ballistic vests under their uniforms. They had no riot shields. The bullhorn the lady was carrying could be considered a dangerous weapon.
As for any case for personal injury, the fool is on her own. She got up, she went on running her mouth with the possible intent of stirring up the crowd. She fit a threat profile. All her actions negate any claim that she was unfairly singled out for abuse.
I have attended some demonstrations as a protestor, including a rather large anti-war protest in Fayetteville North Carolina in early 1970 and a protest of the stolen election on inauguration day in Seattle in 2001. From either side of the police line, the woman's actions are indefensible.
It was none of her damned business who the indivdual being arrested was. She was in the way of the operation and thus a threat to public safety.
Most of the cops I saw were wearing only hard hats and face shields. Theyt had not lowered their face shields, anbd were thus in a relaxed defensive posture.If they had any body armor, it was apparently only ballistic vests under their uniforms. They had no riot shields. The bullhorn the lady was carrying could be considered a dangerous weapon.
As for any case for personal injury, the fool is on her own. She got up, she went on running her mouth with the possible intent of stirring up the crowd. She fit a threat profile. All her actions negate any claim that she was unfairly singled out for abuse.
Check out some of the other protest videos on youtube though. Did you see the one where police cornered a bunch of protesters for 2 hours? The protesters were TOTALLY peaceful. Police kept them cornered and sprayed them with teargas. Police were wearing SWAT gear. It completely looked like a police state. It's damn scary.
Link to the portestors you say were cornered? I haven't seen any.
I have a question, when did dissent become a reason to use force? Wasn't this country founded on dissent? What if the British used those tactics on us when we began? We would be Britain today. 200+ years and we keep going backwards.
QUOTE (leftysergeant @ Aug 29 2008, 02:20 PM)
Link to the portestors you say were cornered? I haven't seen any.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoAVce-Rc2c
This video really creeped me out.
QUOTE (leftysergeant @ Aug 29 2008, 12:55 PM)
The move he made was a text-book quality example of that defensive technique.
Training is more than merely knowing a physical defensive tactic. Training is also knowing when NOT to use the force you CAN inflict on others who are merely exercising their free speech rights. Training is also about self restraint.
He fucked up on that score, because he could have moved her back, without knocking her down that hard. THAT was reflective of poor physical training because he didn't calculate properly the effect of his physical action on her body relative to his size, position, and the suddenness of his strike. And if he DID calculate it and still did it, then we can add intent to the error.
Moreover, simply because a cop "decides" he doesn't like where you're standing, doesn't mean he has the right to move you. Other factors are at play besides his opinion.
And the cop didn't "repel a wacko" he used excessive force to knock down, and potentially permanently injure, a U.S. citizen who was not disrupting traffic and was engaging in her constitutionally protected rights to freedom of assembly, and speech.
Generally, at large events like this, volunteer cops will be called in to help out. Weekend warriors. I know because my old boss at the theater I worked at like a thousand years ago was one during the Rodney King BS, and another friend of mine from college is a full-time cop, so I've heard all about this shit. And of course, I've been on the receiving end of both good and bad policing.
On balance, this was far from a bloodbath in Denver. So far as to be inconsequential.
But the guy in the video should have been taken off the line by his superior, and at a minimum asked if he needed to take a break. Sometimes, that's the only problem. The dude's tired, it's tense, and he fucks up. And a lot of times it happens before even the cop fully realizes what happened. It's the commander on the ground's job to see that big picture, and pull somebody who's aggro off the line, and calm the situation.
They are after all PEACE officers.
QUOTE (DebbieKat @ Aug 29 2008, 02:44 PM)
Masked rioters marching on the convention centers creeps me out big-time, too.
You want to portest with a mask over your face, it had best filter out tear gas. Cowardly little punks got some trouble with being identifiable?
And I did not see people being beaten at random. I did see the legitiamate press being let through the lines.
What are the police supposed to do, let that crowd of morons harrass people going in and out of the convention center? Get real, get grown up, learn what a peaceful demonstration is supposed to look like.
You want to blame someone for the chaos? Blame Rashers Limbaugh and Alex Jones. The police had good reason to consider a march of masked rowdies a security risk.
I would rather one of alex Jones' WACoffs takes a baton to the head than that a sniper get a clear shot at Obama.
This aint a game, people.
QUOTE (TapDuncan @ Aug 29 2008, 04:31 PM)
I have a question, when did dissent become a reason to use force? Wasn't this country founded on dissent? What if the British used those tactics on us when we began? We would be Britain today. 200+ years and we keep going backwards.
IMO the Republicans ARE King George and the REDcoats. Same assholes, different day.
Boston Massacre:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Massacre
This event and the capriciousness of the Colonial British Magistrates (ordering rendition and solitary) caused the FIRST American Revolution.
QUOTE (5by5 @ Aug 29 2008, 05:07 PM)
...
He fucked up on that score, because he could have moved her back, without knocking her down that hard. THAT was reflective of poor physical training because he didn't calculate properly the effect of his physical action on her body relative to his size, position, and the suddenness of his strike. And if he DID calculate it and still did it, then we can add intent to the error.
...
He fucked up on that score, because he could have moved her back, without knocking her down that hard. THAT was reflective of poor physical training because he didn't calculate properly the effect of his physical action on her body relative to his size, position, and the suddenness of his strike. And if he DID calculate it and still did it, then we can add intent to the error.
...
I won't say how or when, but I have received some police training in the use of force, and the scenario where a large civilian person is bodily pushing a smaller police officer is grounds for justifiable response with deadly force after only one verbal warning.
Think about the overall ramifications.
At the least, a good attorney will have a field day with Denver during depositions and settlement negotiations.
I assume Denver can afford it.
QUOTE (adamquestor @ Aug 29 2008, 04:15 PM)
I won't say how or when, but I have received some police training in the use of force, and the scenario where a large civilian person is bodily pushing a smaller police officer is grounds for justifiable response with deadly force after only one verbal warning.
The first shove of a big person on a small officer would justify what the cop did to the pink lady. She had been told not to move toward the vehicle. Her words suggest that she had also been told not to do something else. She's screwed.
QUOTE (leftysergeant @ Aug 29 2008, 06:19 PM)
The first shove of a big person on a small officer would justify what the cop did to the pink lady. She had been told not to move toward the vehicle. Her words suggest that she had also been told not to do something else. She's screwed.
No. There must be a direct attack (not indirect) and intent to inflict extreme bodily harm AND a verbal warning before deadly force or response attack can be used. This protocol was not followed. It is the Denver taxpayers who are screwed.
She was advancing on the police line after being warned not to do something. There are about three minutes of crucially important video missing here. She would need at least that much, maybe more, to show that she was not interfering with the police before the video starts.
There is al;so the fact that her appearance alone might lead one to think she is more than a little strange, possibly a bit deranged or outrightly psychotic.
There is al;so the fact that her appearance alone might lead one to think she is more than a little strange, possibly a bit deranged or outrightly psychotic.
QUOTE (leftysergeant @ Aug 29 2008, 06:47 PM)
She was advancing on the police line after being warned not to do something. There are about three minutes of crucially important video missing here. She would need at least that much, maybe more, to show that she was not interfering with the police before the video starts.
There is al;so the fact that her appearance alone might lead one to think she is more than a little strange, possibly a bit deranged or outrightly psychotic.
There is al;so the fact that her appearance alone might lead one to think she is more than a little strange, possibly a bit deranged or outrightly psychotic.
Ahhh! Even worse for Denver. Permanently injuring a handicapped person out of sheer malice!
Sounds, now, like more than $4 million in damages.
Know what creeps me out LS?
Police officers wearing masks to make themselves unidentifiable. Do those cowardly little punks have a reason to hide their identities?
And I know how they want peaceful demonstrations to look. "Free Speech Zones" - chain link fenced cages located hundreds of yards away. Screw that.
Police officers wearing masks to make themselves unidentifiable. Do those cowardly little punks have a reason to hide their identities?
And I know how they want peaceful demonstrations to look. "Free Speech Zones" - chain link fenced cages located hundreds of yards away. Screw that.
QUOTE (Maiq)
And I know how they want peaceful demonstrations to look. "Free Speech Zones" - chain link fenced cages located hundreds of yards away. Screw that.
What barbed wire?
The police needed to keep the street around the convention center clear of obstructions. That includes unidentified morons with an attitude milling about rousing hostility to ward the candidate and delegates.
Police wear masks in formations in which they are known to their command structure so that they may not be given the same treatment that doctors who do abortions get.
If you want to protest, show your face like a man. Covering it is a good sign that you have some reason to fear being identified. It does not endanger your life. It actually makes it more noticeable if someone takes you out secretly after you have been publicly identified.
Cops sometimes have to go undercover. The bad guys have no right to know who they are.
QUOTE (leftysergeant @ Aug 29 2008, 05:38 PM)
What barbed wire?
The police needed to keep the street around the convention center clear of obstructions. That includes unidentified morons with an attitude milling about rousing hostility to ward the candidate and delegates.
Police wear masks in formations in which they are known to their command structure so that they may not be given the same treatment that doctors who do abortions get.
If you want to protest, show your face like a man. Covering it is a good sign that you have some reason to fear being identified. It does not endanger your life. It actually makes it more noticeable if someone takes you out secretly after you have been publicly identified.
Cops sometimes have to go undercover. The bad guys have no right to know who they are.
The police needed to keep the street around the convention center clear of obstructions. That includes unidentified morons with an attitude milling about rousing hostility to ward the candidate and delegates.
Police wear masks in formations in which they are known to their command structure so that they may not be given the same treatment that doctors who do abortions get.
If you want to protest, show your face like a man. Covering it is a good sign that you have some reason to fear being identified. It does not endanger your life. It actually makes it more noticeable if someone takes you out secretly after you have been publicly identified.
Cops sometimes have to go undercover. The bad guys have no right to know who they are.
Did I say anything about barbed wire? I said chain link fence.
The other reason they wear face shields is that it gives them a sinister appearance and a sense of anonymity. When the head crackin' starts even if they get caught on video it's almost impossible to ID them unless you get cooperation from the cops themselves. Good luck with that.
Now as far as cowardly punks go, who's got the bigger nut sack - phalanx of cops in body armor, helmets and face shields, with clubs and guns with their supporting armored vehicles, air support and snipers or the demonstrators in jeans, tee shirt, sneaks and maybe a bandana who know that there's a possibility that if they exercise their rights there's a chance they could get beat down and arrested and the cops probably won't face any serious repercussions.
I know who has the bigger yam bag. No contest.
No way should the police be allowed to hide their identities. There's a real danger there and I think the police should show their faces like honest men (and women).
QUOTE (leftysergeant @ Aug 29 2008, 04:59 PM)
Masked rioters marching on the convention centers creeps me out big-time, too.
You want to portest with a mask over your face, it had best filter out tear gas. Cowardly little punks got some trouble with being identifiable?
And I did not see people being beaten at random. I did see the legitiamate press being let through the lines.
What are the police supposed to do, let that crowd of morons harrass people going in and out of the convention center? Get real, get grown up, learn what a peaceful demonstration is supposed to look like.
You want to blame someone for the chaos? Blame Rashers Limbaugh and Alex Jones. The police had good reason to consider a march of masked rowdies a security risk.
I would rather one of alex Jones' WACoffs takes a baton to the head than that a sniper get a clear shot at Obama.
This aint a game, people.
You want to portest with a mask over your face, it had best filter out tear gas. Cowardly little punks got some trouble with being identifiable?
And I did not see people being beaten at random. I did see the legitiamate press being let through the lines.
What are the police supposed to do, let that crowd of morons harrass people going in and out of the convention center? Get real, get grown up, learn what a peaceful demonstration is supposed to look like.
You want to blame someone for the chaos? Blame Rashers Limbaugh and Alex Jones. The police had good reason to consider a march of masked rowdies a security risk.
I would rather one of alex Jones' WACoffs takes a baton to the head than that a sniper get a clear shot at Obama.
This aint a game, people.
I will have to agree. I spent the day in Denver yesterday. We spent hours on the 16th street mall just walking and looking at what the venders had to sell...there were a lot of people down there and no trouble...cops were on bicycles...maybe 3 or 4 on motorcycles...they were friendly and enjoying the day. I was surprised to say the least...I did notice that there were cops from different towns...usually Denver cops...well, I don't like them much...my kids were never allowed to go to Denver without me...Denver is still paying off lawsuits to families of kids killed by cops but that's another story. Denver also has big gang activity with the bloods, the Crips and a few Latino gangs...rumor had it that Public enemy was getting back together for a show at a park downtown...that would have been a bad combination. A lot was at stake...the rules were for everyone....the demonstrators looking like they were agitating for a confrontation while shouting "No violence"....WTF did they think was going to happen? You have to do it smart...and they weren't. I've seen lot's of demonstrations in my day...you can't bring good attention to your cause by provoking a riot...Randi probably saw what i did...
QUOTE (leftysergeant @ Aug 29 2008, 07:19 PM)
The first shove of a big person on a small officer would justify what the cop did to the pink lady. She had been told not to move toward the vehicle. Her words suggest that she had also been told not to do something else. She's screwed.
These Jackboots have got to go! WE, THE PEOPLE have had it with their ilk. It won't matter how many they hire with dubious backgrounds or a history of violence.
There are 300 million citizens who will demand they clean up their act or BEGONE.
I generally avoid going to protests here in Portland because, without fail, the anarchists show up with nothing better to do than provoke the police into overreacting. If they aren't agents provocateurs, then they are useful idiots who perform the same function. They wear their masks like it will protect them from being identified by the cops, but the cops already know who they are. In the meantime, peaceful protesters have to worry if they are going to catch hell for something these clowns do.
Want to destroy the legitimacy of a protest? Send in the anarchists.
Want to destroy the legitimacy of a protest? Send in the anarchists.
QUOTE (Morgan @ Aug 29 2008, 11:49 PM)
These Jackboots have got to go! WE, THE PEOPLE have had it with their ilk. It won't matter how many they hire with dubious backgrounds or a history of violence.
There are 300 million citizens who will demand they clean up their act or BEGONE.
There are 300 million citizens who will demand they clean up their act or BEGONE.
What's your plan?
QUOTE (Balor @ Aug 29 2008, 10:01 PM)
I generally avoid going to protests here in Portland because, without fail, the anarchists show up with nothing better to do than provoke the police into overreacting. If they aren't agents provocateurs, then they are useful idiots who perform the same function. They wear their masks like it will protect them from being identified by the cops, but the cops already know who they are. In the meantime, peaceful protesters have to worry if they are going to catch hell for something these clowns do.
Want to destroy the legitimacy of a protest? Send in the anarchists.
Want to destroy the legitimacy of a protest? Send in the anarchists.
I know there are still anarchists but I often wonder if the ones at protests are real. I remember reading Willamette Week back in the late 70s...in the classifieds there was an ad asking for "WANTED public activists good pay" (going on memory but that was the essence). And the ad didn't even ask for any particular political viewpoints...just people who'll act like asses for pay.
I got this today from Code Pink.
Barack Obama gave a powerful message last night when he said that the election was not about him, but about us. The same is true for the change we are so anxious to see-it's about us building the momentum. That's why CODEPINK and other grassroots activists from all over the country were so determined to take the message of peace to the Democratic National Convention. While Barack Obama barely mentioned Iraq in his acceptance speech, we were there all week long to bring a peace platform to the DNC.
Yes, there were some places where we were not welcome (and even kicked out!) but most delegates embraced us with love and gratitude. They, too, are frustrated by the lack of leadership in our country when it comes to getting out of Iraq, and are ready to stand up for issues and not just candidates. Over 1,000 delegates wore or held our message, I am A Delegate for PEACE.
On our pinked up rollerblades and bicycles we painted Denver pink with PEACE. We even created a giant "Make Out Not War" aerial image with our bodies--and check out more great DNC photos here. We covered the streets with our powerful posters, designed by Favianna Rodriquez. They are now collectors' items. Click here to get yours at the CODEPINK store.
Of course not every single moment was peachy with peace. While many of the police in Denver loved our visuals and Make Out Not War stickers, sometimes they over-reacted with protestors. Click here to see CODEPINKer Alicia Forrest slammed to the ground by a police officer. Thankfully Alicia is recovering and will pursue legal action against those responsible for this extreme use of force.
No rest for CODEPINK! We are off to St. Paul, Minnesota now, and are excited to bring our message of peace to the Republican National Convention. Be sure to watch for our pink presence in the RNC media coverage!
Raising a ruckus for peace,
Alicia, Anne, Dana, Deidra, Desiree, Farida, Gael, Gayle, Jean, Jodie, Liz, Lori, Medea, Nancy, Rae and Tighe
p.s. A huge thank you to everyone who made this week in Denver possible, from those who sent us banners, costumes and other visuals to those who traveled across the country to join us. We couldn't have done it without you!!!
Barack Obama gave a powerful message last night when he said that the election was not about him, but about us. The same is true for the change we are so anxious to see-it's about us building the momentum. That's why CODEPINK and other grassroots activists from all over the country were so determined to take the message of peace to the Democratic National Convention. While Barack Obama barely mentioned Iraq in his acceptance speech, we were there all week long to bring a peace platform to the DNC.
Yes, there were some places where we were not welcome (and even kicked out!) but most delegates embraced us with love and gratitude. They, too, are frustrated by the lack of leadership in our country when it comes to getting out of Iraq, and are ready to stand up for issues and not just candidates. Over 1,000 delegates wore or held our message, I am A Delegate for PEACE.
On our pinked up rollerblades and bicycles we painted Denver pink with PEACE. We even created a giant "Make Out Not War" aerial image with our bodies--and check out more great DNC photos here. We covered the streets with our powerful posters, designed by Favianna Rodriquez. They are now collectors' items. Click here to get yours at the CODEPINK store.
Of course not every single moment was peachy with peace. While many of the police in Denver loved our visuals and Make Out Not War stickers, sometimes they over-reacted with protestors. Click here to see CODEPINKer Alicia Forrest slammed to the ground by a police officer. Thankfully Alicia is recovering and will pursue legal action against those responsible for this extreme use of force.
No rest for CODEPINK! We are off to St. Paul, Minnesota now, and are excited to bring our message of peace to the Republican National Convention. Be sure to watch for our pink presence in the RNC media coverage!
Raising a ruckus for peace,
Alicia, Anne, Dana, Deidra, Desiree, Farida, Gael, Gayle, Jean, Jodie, Liz, Lori, Medea, Nancy, Rae and Tighe
p.s. A huge thank you to everyone who made this week in Denver possible, from those who sent us banners, costumes and other visuals to those who traveled across the country to join us. We couldn't have done it without you!!!
Okay, I haven't been to Denver in about 38 years, so I do not know the area at all. Can anyone tell me where those protestors were boxed in and where the punks thought they were going and what they would do when they got there?
And where was that chain-link barricade that people were pushing on?
These things matter.
And what the hell was the pink lady doing trying to cross a police line in the first place? Injuries suffered while committing a misdemeanor are usual just shrugged off in court unless it can be proven that the person causing the injury acted with malice. The cop can claim the status of an intended victim. The idiot was carrying things that could be used as a weapon. Piss on her.
And where was that chain-link barricade that people were pushing on?
These things matter.
And what the hell was the pink lady doing trying to cross a police line in the first place? Injuries suffered while committing a misdemeanor are usual just shrugged off in court unless it can be proven that the person causing the injury acted with malice. The cop can claim the status of an intended victim. The idiot was carrying things that could be used as a weapon. Piss on her.
QUOTE (leftysergeant @ Aug 30 2008, 01:12 PM)
And what the hell was the pink lady doing trying to cross a police line in the first place?
Have we been watching the same video, Lefty?
From what I see, she did not move forward, even less try to cross the "police line" (which was rather loose, not shoulder-to-shoulder and not clearly defined). It was the police thug who stepped forward out of the "line" when he thought she didn't move away from the vehicle as fast as he would have liked her to. She was already sufficiently away from it anyway, so why did he think he had to act in the first place?
QUOTE
Injuries suffered while committing a misdemeanor are usual just shrugged off in court unless it can be proven that the person causing the injury acted with malice. The cop can claim the status of an intended victim. The idiot was carrying things that could be used as a weapon.
To call that tiny plastic megaphone a potential weapon is beyond ridiculous. Who would ever use such a thing against an armed policeman?
Anyway. the incident has been caught on at least three videos, so there'll be no lack of proof. They'll show who committed the "misdemeanor" here.
Charming fellow. Who would want to be married to this guy?
Authorities had started looking into this already in the same day.
A couple snippets from the Rocky Mountain News:
QUOTE
A police officer was videotaped Tuesday shoving a CodePink protester hard to the ground without any apparent sign of provocation.
Footage of the incident prompted the city's independent monitor to call for a review and the police department's Internal Affairs Bureau to request a copy of the tape.
Police arrested Alicia Forrest, 24, a Los Angeles resident whom CodePink representatives identified as the woman involved in the altercation, shortly afterward as she was addressing reporters just outside Civic Center.
The arrest - in which Forrest was grabbed and hauled away from reporters - also was caught on camera, and CodePink legal liaison Sally Newman said Forrest was doing "nothing violent at all" to incur either the shove or the arrest.
{...}
Sue Cobb, a spokeswoman for Mayor John Hickenlooper, said the city's Internal Affairs Bureau and the independent monitor are both looking into the incident.
"We take allegations of excessive force very seriously and will investigate fully," she said in a statement. "As soon as we know the facts, we'll provide more information."
Lt. Ron Saunier, a Denver police spokesman, said the 30-second clip was "kind of jumpy" on his computer and that it doesn't provide enough context.
(...)
Denver police Cmdr. John Burbach, head of internal affairs, requested a copy of the video, which was shot by Rocky Mountain News videographer George Kochaniec Jr.
"We'd like to have our own copy," Burbach said, declining to discuss the incident itself. "I don't know if there's anything that's before or after, that sort of thing."
Such a request is serious and requires a judicial order, said Rocky Editor and Publisher John Temple.
(...)
Independent Monitor Richard Rosenthal, who looked at the video online at the request of the Rocky, said the incident warrants additional review.
"Obviously, looking at that, I'd want to look at the use-of-force report," he said. "I'd want the department to look and evaluate."
(...)
Saunier said he recommends that Forrest contact the Internal Affairs Bureau or independent monitor if she feels that the officer used unnecessary force.
Footage of the incident prompted the city's independent monitor to call for a review and the police department's Internal Affairs Bureau to request a copy of the tape.
Police arrested Alicia Forrest, 24, a Los Angeles resident whom CodePink representatives identified as the woman involved in the altercation, shortly afterward as she was addressing reporters just outside Civic Center.
The arrest - in which Forrest was grabbed and hauled away from reporters - also was caught on camera, and CodePink legal liaison Sally Newman said Forrest was doing "nothing violent at all" to incur either the shove or the arrest.
{...}
Sue Cobb, a spokeswoman for Mayor John Hickenlooper, said the city's Internal Affairs Bureau and the independent monitor are both looking into the incident.
"We take allegations of excessive force very seriously and will investigate fully," she said in a statement. "As soon as we know the facts, we'll provide more information."
Lt. Ron Saunier, a Denver police spokesman, said the 30-second clip was "kind of jumpy" on his computer and that it doesn't provide enough context.
(...)
Denver police Cmdr. John Burbach, head of internal affairs, requested a copy of the video, which was shot by Rocky Mountain News videographer George Kochaniec Jr.
"We'd like to have our own copy," Burbach said, declining to discuss the incident itself. "I don't know if there's anything that's before or after, that sort of thing."
Such a request is serious and requires a judicial order, said Rocky Editor and Publisher John Temple.
(...)
Independent Monitor Richard Rosenthal, who looked at the video online at the request of the Rocky, said the incident warrants additional review.
"Obviously, looking at that, I'd want to look at the use-of-force report," he said. "I'd want the department to look and evaluate."
(...)
Saunier said he recommends that Forrest contact the Internal Affairs Bureau or independent monitor if she feels that the officer used unnecessary force.
Don't misunderestimate the Code Pink ladies. They've done pretty well in court before:
Criminal Charges Dropped Against CODEPINK Women Who Shut Down Berkeley Marine Recruiting Station
QUOTE
Piss on her.
Nice. Please share some more of your fantasies. Or rather not.
Pissin' against the wind, you are. As usual.
The videos are quite cut up and edited - well it is the purpose these days, for protestors to provoke confrontation and show the establishment in a bad light - hence the chanting: "what does a police state look like .."
My own thought, seeing the masked demonstrators was: ".. what do terrorists look like? .."
Everything today is pitched, spun and played. Demonstrations these days are so rough and rude that they are often worse than what is being demonstrated against.
While it's great fun and a big thrill for the young, I think most stable citizens would prefer peace over the chaos & tyranny of the "demonstrators".
My own thought, seeing the masked demonstrators was: ".. what do terrorists look like? .."
Everything today is pitched, spun and played. Demonstrations these days are so rough and rude that they are often worse than what is being demonstrated against.
While it's great fun and a big thrill for the young, I think most stable citizens would prefer peace over the chaos & tyranny of the "demonstrators".
The pink fairy and the anarchists are just mirror images of Alex Jones.
We don't need them.
We don't need them.
QUOTE (leftysergeant @ Aug 30 2008, 07:12 AM)
Okay, I haven't been to Denver in about 38 years, so I do not know the area at all. Can anyone tell me where those protestors were boxed in and where the punks thought they were going and what they would do when they got there?
And where was that chain-link barricade that people were pushing on?
These things matter.
And what the hell was the pink lady doing trying to cross a police line in the first place? Injuries suffered while committing a misdemeanor are usual just shrugged off in court unless it can be proven that the person causing the injury acted with malice. The cop can claim the status of an intended victim. The idiot was carrying things that could be used as a weapon. Piss on her.
And where was that chain-link barricade that people were pushing on?
These things matter.
And what the hell was the pink lady doing trying to cross a police line in the first place? Injuries suffered while committing a misdemeanor are usual just shrugged off in court unless it can be proven that the person causing the injury acted with malice. The cop can claim the status of an intended victim. The idiot was carrying things that could be used as a weapon. Piss on her.
Every American has the right to free speech in a public place. No matter how they are dressed or who they represent. From the video I don't see the cop as a victim sorry.
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