Detroit's leading newspaper reported that the 1908 Ford Model T boasted a fuel economy of 25 miles per gallon. Yet 100 years later, the EPA average mileage for all cars is under 21 mpg.
http://www.wanttoknow.info/
QUOTE (g7enn @ Sep 8 2008, 07:01 AM) 
Detroit's leading newspaper reported that the 1908 Ford Model T boasted a fuel economy of 25 miles per gallon. Yet 100 years later, the EPA average mileage for all cars is under 21 mpg.
http://www.wanttoknow.info/
http://www.wanttoknow.info/
But you couldn't get XM radio.
Look at the difference in Horse power between the model T's engine (20 Horsepower) to the V6 engine (3.5 liters) Honda Accord motor which puts out 268 horsepower.
Mileage (and power) have improved over the last 100 odd years.
Mileage (and power) have improved over the last 100 odd years.
no question that the oil industry has manipulated the auto industry and us over the years to keep us on gas guzzling vehicles, in large part by spoiling us and making us think we need big vehicles, etc
i know because I am guilty of it, i will be getting tahoe hybrid in march of next year as soon as the lease on mine is up so as to avoid penalties, cant write off those penalties
i know because I am guilty of it, i will be getting tahoe hybrid in march of next year as soon as the lease on mine is up so as to avoid penalties, cant write off those penalties
QUOTE (g7enn @ Sep 8 2008, 07:01 AM)
Detroit's leading newspaper reported that the 1908 Ford Model T boasted a fuel economy of 25 miles per gallon. Yet 100 years later, the EPA average mileage for all cars is under 21 mpg.
http://www.wanttoknow.info/
http://www.wanttoknow.info/
I believe the national speed limit was also 25 mph. If we all drove no more than 25 mph, we might get 25 mpg easy.
A topic like this came up on NPR today... Jimmy Carter demanded the standard MPG be risen and that we look for alternative fuels. The standard has only been risen again this year and oh by the way our good friend Ronald Regan, who Republicans hail a saint tore off all the solar panels off the white house as soon as he got in.
In general, I think a good way to approach the energy problem is to look back about 100 years, before there was much oil for cars, or many cars, and look how people lived then -- how they organized their cities, how they got their food and daily necessities, etc -- and THEN optimize that with respect to all the new technologies which have appeared since then, most notably, computers, communications and (soon) robotics.
The "old" cities in Europe were dense, with neighborhoods which supplied daily necessities. Walking was sufficient most of the time, then short term rapid transit (like Metro), then fast long haul rail. That is not a bad model and it is working out quite well in the some American cities also, like Portland. IMO, the auto, suburbs, and sprawl was a bad idea.
In any case if you look back about 100 years in France, you'd find Solex. They were all over the place when my family was stationed there in the early 60's. After 20 years out of production, they've made a comeback. 200mpg or so. Little 2 stroke "emergency" motor on the front wheel, gas tank holds maybe half a gallon. Mostly pedal power, but on a hill, lever the motor down to engage the front wheel, friction start and there you go. About $1400.
Solex Today.
The "old" cities in Europe were dense, with neighborhoods which supplied daily necessities. Walking was sufficient most of the time, then short term rapid transit (like Metro), then fast long haul rail. That is not a bad model and it is working out quite well in the some American cities also, like Portland. IMO, the auto, suburbs, and sprawl was a bad idea.
In any case if you look back about 100 years in France, you'd find Solex. They were all over the place when my family was stationed there in the early 60's. After 20 years out of production, they've made a comeback. 200mpg or so. Little 2 stroke "emergency" motor on the front wheel, gas tank holds maybe half a gallon. Mostly pedal power, but on a hill, lever the motor down to engage the front wheel, friction start and there you go. About $1400.
Solex Today.
Maybe Ford needs to rethink this:
link (Business Week)
Green Biz September 4, 2008, 5:00PM EST
The 65 mpg Ford the U.S. Can't Have
Ford's Fiesta ECOnetic gets an astonishing 65 mpg, but the carmaker can't afford to sell it in the U.S.
by David Kiley
If ever there was a car made for the times, this would seem to be it: a sporty subcompact that seats five, offers a navigation system, and gets a whopping 65 miles to the gallon. Oh yes, and the car is made by Ford Motor (F), known widely for lumbering gas hogs.
Ford's 2009 Fiesta ECOnetic goes on sale in November. But here's the catch: Despite the car's potential to transform Ford's image and help it compete with Toyota Motor ™ and Honda Motor (HMC) in its home market, the company will sell the little fuel sipper only in Europe. "We know it's an awesome vehicle," says Ford America President Mark Fields. "But there are business reasons why we can't sell it in the U.S." The main one: The Fiesta ECOnetic runs on diesel.
Automakers such as Volkswagen (VLKAY) and Mercedes-Benz (DAI) have predicted for years that a technology called "clean diesel" would overcome many Americans' antipathy to a fuel still often thought of as the smelly stuff that powers tractor trailers. Diesel vehicles now hitting the market with pollution-fighting technology are as clean or cleaner than gasoline and at least 30% more fuel-efficient.
Yet while half of all cars sold in Europe last year ran on diesel, the U.S. market remains relatively unfriendly to the fuel. Taxes aimed at commercial trucks mean diesel costs anywhere from 40 cents to $1 more per gallon than gasoline. Add to this the success of the Toyota Prius, and you can see why only 3% of cars in the U.S. use diesel. "Americans see hybrids as the darling," says Global Insight auto analyst Philip Gott, "and diesel as old-tech."
None of this is stopping European and Japanese automakers, which are betting they can jump-start the U.S. market with new diesel models. Mercedes-Benz by next year will have three cars it markets as "BlueTec." Even Nissan (NSANY) and Honda, which long opposed building diesel cars in Europe, plan to introduce them in the U.S. in 2010. But Ford, whose Fiesta ECOnetic compares favorably with European diesels, can't make a business case for bringing the car to the U.S.
TOO PRICEY TO IMPORT
First of all, the engines are built in Britain, so labor costs are high. Plus the pound remains stronger than the greenback. At prevailing exchange rates, the Fiesta ECOnetic would sell for about $25,700 in the U.S. By contrast, the Prius typically goes for about $24,000. A $1,300 tax deduction available to buyers of new diesel cars could bring the price of the Fiesta to around $24,400. But Ford doesn't believe it could charge enough to make money on an imported ECOnetic.
Ford plans to make a gas-powered version of the Fiesta in Mexico for the U.S. So why not manufacture diesel engines there, too? Building a plant would cost at least $350 million at a time when Ford has been burning through more than $1 billion a month in cash reserves. Besides, the automaker would have to produce at least 350,000 engines a year to make such a venture profitable. "We just don't think North and South America would buy that many diesel cars," says Fields.
The question, of course, is whether the U.S. ever will embrace diesel fuel and allow automakers to achieve sufficient scale to make money on such vehicles. California certified VW and Mercedes diesel cars earlier this year, after a four-year ban. James N. Hall, of auto researcher 293 Analysts, says that bellwether state and the Northeast remain "hostile to diesel." But the risk to Ford is that the fuel takes off, and the carmaker finds itself playing catch-up—despite having a serious diesel contender in its arsenal.
link (Business Week)
Green Biz September 4, 2008, 5:00PM EST
The 65 mpg Ford the U.S. Can't Have
Ford's Fiesta ECOnetic gets an astonishing 65 mpg, but the carmaker can't afford to sell it in the U.S.
by David Kiley
If ever there was a car made for the times, this would seem to be it: a sporty subcompact that seats five, offers a navigation system, and gets a whopping 65 miles to the gallon. Oh yes, and the car is made by Ford Motor (F), known widely for lumbering gas hogs.
Ford's 2009 Fiesta ECOnetic goes on sale in November. But here's the catch: Despite the car's potential to transform Ford's image and help it compete with Toyota Motor ™ and Honda Motor (HMC) in its home market, the company will sell the little fuel sipper only in Europe. "We know it's an awesome vehicle," says Ford America President Mark Fields. "But there are business reasons why we can't sell it in the U.S." The main one: The Fiesta ECOnetic runs on diesel.
Automakers such as Volkswagen (VLKAY) and Mercedes-Benz (DAI) have predicted for years that a technology called "clean diesel" would overcome many Americans' antipathy to a fuel still often thought of as the smelly stuff that powers tractor trailers. Diesel vehicles now hitting the market with pollution-fighting technology are as clean or cleaner than gasoline and at least 30% more fuel-efficient.
Yet while half of all cars sold in Europe last year ran on diesel, the U.S. market remains relatively unfriendly to the fuel. Taxes aimed at commercial trucks mean diesel costs anywhere from 40 cents to $1 more per gallon than gasoline. Add to this the success of the Toyota Prius, and you can see why only 3% of cars in the U.S. use diesel. "Americans see hybrids as the darling," says Global Insight auto analyst Philip Gott, "and diesel as old-tech."
None of this is stopping European and Japanese automakers, which are betting they can jump-start the U.S. market with new diesel models. Mercedes-Benz by next year will have three cars it markets as "BlueTec." Even Nissan (NSANY) and Honda, which long opposed building diesel cars in Europe, plan to introduce them in the U.S. in 2010. But Ford, whose Fiesta ECOnetic compares favorably with European diesels, can't make a business case for bringing the car to the U.S.
TOO PRICEY TO IMPORT
First of all, the engines are built in Britain, so labor costs are high. Plus the pound remains stronger than the greenback. At prevailing exchange rates, the Fiesta ECOnetic would sell for about $25,700 in the U.S. By contrast, the Prius typically goes for about $24,000. A $1,300 tax deduction available to buyers of new diesel cars could bring the price of the Fiesta to around $24,400. But Ford doesn't believe it could charge enough to make money on an imported ECOnetic.
Ford plans to make a gas-powered version of the Fiesta in Mexico for the U.S. So why not manufacture diesel engines there, too? Building a plant would cost at least $350 million at a time when Ford has been burning through more than $1 billion a month in cash reserves. Besides, the automaker would have to produce at least 350,000 engines a year to make such a venture profitable. "We just don't think North and South America would buy that many diesel cars," says Fields.
The question, of course, is whether the U.S. ever will embrace diesel fuel and allow automakers to achieve sufficient scale to make money on such vehicles. California certified VW and Mercedes diesel cars earlier this year, after a four-year ban. James N. Hall, of auto researcher 293 Analysts, says that bellwether state and the Northeast remain "hostile to diesel." But the risk to Ford is that the fuel takes off, and the carmaker finds itself playing catch-up—despite having a serious diesel contender in its arsenal.
I think that the formula used for the calculations have changed, over the years.
What was the top speed of a Ford Model T? 10 miles per hour? Most current cars will get 40 MPG at 10 miles per hour. The problem is that people want to drive faster than that.
What was the top speed of a Ford Model T? 10 miles per hour? Most current cars will get 40 MPG at 10 miles per hour. The problem is that people want to drive faster than that.
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