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uriel81
Is this thing pretty or what?



I hope Spiderman can still fix things that go bump in the night.

What's up with those most fascinating of all elementary particles, hadrons in the Large Hadron Collector (LHC). Maybe they'll get enough of them tomorrow to stop looking before the earth is absorbed by mini-black holes that the thing creates. Never happen! Not to worry.
At least Cap. Kirk knew something about antimatter before he fired up the Enterprise warp engines. Oh well biggrin.gif Nicht zu kummern.


QUOTE ("")
So what the heck is a hadron?
By Steve Connor
Wednesday, 10 September 2008

Who is behind today's experiment?

This is probably the biggest international collaboration outside of the United Nations. It has involved something like 10,000 scientists and engineers from 500 research institutes in 80 countries. The building of the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) has been co-ordinated by the European Organisation for Nuclear Research (Cern) in Geneva, which carries out studies into particle physics on behalf of the 20 nations that fund it. Cern has already built several particle colliders, or "atom smashers", which have produced fundamental discoveries in physics leading to several Nobel prizes.


How safe is it?

The risks of anything going disastrously wrong are so small as to be insignificant. Reports referring to the "infinitesimally small" risk of the LHC creating a giant black hole have been universally ridiculed by the experts involved in the project – and many more who are not involved.
rememberearth
QUOTE (uriel81 @ Sep 10 2008, 12:20 AM) *
Is this thing pretty or what?



I hope Spiderman can still fix things that go bump in the night.

What's up with those most fascinating of all elementary particles, hadrons in the Large Hadron Collector (LHC). Maybe they'll get enough of them tomorrow to stop looking before the earth is absorbed by mini-black holes that the thing creates. Never happen! Not to worry.
At least Cap. Kirk knew something about antimatter before he fired up the Enterprise warp engines. Oh well biggrin.gif Nicht zu kummern.

did ya see Hawking's response though?

hawking
QUOTE
LONDON (AFP) - Renowned British astrophysicist Stephen Hawking has bet 100 dollars (70 euros) that a mega-experiment this week will not find an elusive particle seen as a holy grail of cosmic science, he said Tuesday.
huffNpuff
Do you think we could put McNasty and mama Mooseturd in there and when tthey smack into each other all you'll hear is POW POW POW POW ?
uriel81
QUOTE (rememberearth @ Sep 9 2008, 09:22 PM) *
did ya see Hawking's response though?

hawking


Cute, but that's what I was afraid of: they won't discover the Pigs... er Higgs Particle because the earth will no longer exist after tomorrow when the clapper goes on! You people must learn to respect my fears. Here's what I think about that: Palinology thinks that she has already discovered the God-Particle--and it was Grampy McSame.



Lordy, IT was there all along rofl.gif


-----------

bushwa
QUOTE (uriel81 @ Sep 9 2008, 09:35 PM) *
......what I was afraid of: they won't discover the Pigs... er Higgs Particle because the earth will no longer exist after tomorrow when the clapper goes on! ...



May I have all of your money, please?

Stoon
It's The End Of The World As We Know It
uriel81
Little Black Hole Politics - "pity this busy monster, manunkind"

Here's how I think they sold the LHC: "Well, remember physiscists and porky defense contractors that make all the weapons that have been blowing up the world for eons do not have a union. Therefore government should get in immediately and subsidize them to the tune of $12 Billion and attempt to disprove the existence of the universe. Also, there is only one really, really big black hole in the galaxy--at the center--and it could always use another small one just in case the earth loses it's cool and becomes one. Now there are 2600 full-time employees of CERN who don't have much to do. What could they do?

Let's see the anniversary of 9/11 is Thursday... I know lets fire up the LHC Works Progress Authority tomorrow. Buy some really good weed and we'll party with that too."

Deal!


QUOTE
pity this busy monster, manunkind,

not. Progress is a comfortable disease:
your victim (death and life safely beyond)

plays with the bigness of his littleness
--- electrons deify one razorblade
into a mountainrange; lenses extend
unwish through curving wherewhen till unwish
returns on its unself.
A world of made
is not a world of born --- pity poor flesh

and trees, poor stars and stones, but never this
fine specimen of hypermagical

ultraomnipotence. We doctors know

a hopeless case if --- listen: there's a hell
of a good universe next door; let's go


-- E. E. Cummings


------------------
Fellixe
QUOTE (uriel81 @ Sep 9 2008, 09:20 PM) *
Is this thing pretty or what?


Holy crap. It looks like it's all ready to take John Bigbootie back to the 8th Dimension.
Wayne


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqiblXFlZuk

Woody Guthrie

uriel81
Little Ole' Black Hole Politics - "pity this busy monster, manunkind"

How the LHC was sold: "Oh, and if it it swallows up France that is cool with Boeing because they have really, really good health care there. They can handle it. We think that women scientists will work cheap on this one because, not content with having a Big Bang, they prefer to analyze it and talk about it afterwards. rimshot.gif Don't know, Craig Ferguson said this tonight."

--------------
rememberearth
QUOTE
Largest particle collider conducts successful test

By ALEXANDER G. HIGGINS, Associated Press Writer 1 hour, 23 minutes ago

GENEVA - The world's largest particle collider successfully completed its first major test by firing a beam of protons all the way around a 17-mile (27-kilometer) tunnel Wednesday in what scientists hope is the next great step to understanding the makeup of the universe.


After a series of trial runs, two white dots flashed on a computer screen at 10:36 a.m. (0836 GMT) indicating that the protons had traveled the full length of the US$3.8 billion Large Hadron Collider.

"There it is," project leader Lyn Evans said when the beam completed its lap.

Champagne corks popped in labs as far away as Chicago, where contributing scientists watched the proceedings by satellite. Physicists around the world now have much greater power than ever before to smash the components of atoms together in attempts to see how they are made.

"Well done everybody," said Robert Aymar, director-general of the European Organization for Nuclear Research, to cheers from the assembled scientists in the collider's control room at the Swiss-French border.

The organization, known by its French acronym CERN, began firing the protons — a type of subatomic particle — around the tunnel in stages less than an hour earlier.

Now that the beam has been successfully tested in clockwise direction, CERN plans to send it counterclockwise. Eventually two beams will be fired in opposite directions with the aim of recreating conditions a split second after the big bang, which scientists theorize was the massive explosion that created the universe.

link
uriel81
QUOTE (rememberearth @ Sep 10 2008, 04:12 AM) *


That's what i'm talking about: it popped champagne corks in Chicago ("that town's a little bit too tough for us" - Randy Newman). Actually, I heard that the mini-black holes take 3 weeks to brew and then then start absorbing Western Europe. They don't call me paranoid for nothing.


rememberearth
QUOTE (uriel81 @ Sep 10 2008, 10:54 AM) *
That's what i'm talking about: it popped champagne corks in Chicago ("that town's a little bit too tough for us" - Randy Newman). Actually, I heard that the mini-black holes take 3 weeks to brew and then then start absorbing Western Europe. They don't call me paranoid for nothing.



rofl.gif
AZNative
QUOTE (rememberearth @ Sep 9 2008, 09:22 PM) *
did ya see Hawking's response though?

hawking



Two things about this...


First, Hawking's has a history of better against himself. This is the man responsible for a large chunk of the theoretical work done to prove the existence of Black Holes, yet he had a standing bet with Roger Penrose in which he took the position that Black Holes did NOT exist. It was a friendly bet, but something he has sort of become well known for doing.

Second, there are many physicists why are hoping we do not discover the Higgs Boson. In fact, it would actually be rather boring if we did. Proving the existence of this particle does little to move science forward. It simply supports (rather than proves) current theory. In other words, finding it proves nothing...it simply fails to *disprove* something...boring.

Science often makes greater strides forward from our failures and mistakes than it does from our successes.
Llydis
As far as I know, that thing can't create a black hole big enough to actually do anything. Those black holes would be so small they'd dissapate rather quickly.

Now, if you want a scarier thought, it's theorized that in around 60 billion years our nearest neighbor galaxy, Andromeda, will collide with our galaxy. The two galaxies will generate enough energy to burn each other to death while both supermassive black holes at the center of each galaxy will end up merging with one another to create an even bigger supermassive black hole.

Our little end of the galaxy could either be flung out into space, or right at the beginning of the event. But, I'd say if we don't destroy each other with ray guns, we'll be okay since we'll have developed space travel by that point. Hopefully.
rememberearth
QUOTE (AZNative @ Sep 10 2008, 11:03 AM) *
Two things about this...


First, Hawking's has a history of better against himself. This is the man responsible for a large chunk of the theoretical work done to prove the existence of Black Holes, yet he had a standing bet with Roger Penrose in which he took the position that Black Holes did NOT exist. It was a friendly bet, but something he has sort of become well known for doing.

Second, there are many physicists why are hoping we do not discover the Higgs Boson. In fact, it would actually be rather boring if we did. Proving the existence of this particle does little to move science forward. It simply supports (rather than proves) current theory. In other words, finding it proves nothing...it simply fails to *disprove* something...boring.

Science often makes greater strides forward from our failures and mistakes than it does from our successes.

it certainly would put the creationists and i.d. peeps out to pasture though. smile.gif
GCurry
QUOTE (Stoon @ Sep 9 2008, 10:30 PM) *

No Biggie, Miss Piggie.
GCurry
QUOTE (AZNative @ Sep 10 2008, 08:03 AM) *
..

Second, there are many physicists why are hoping we do not discover the Higgs Boson. In fact, it would actually be rather boring if we did. Proving the existence of this particle does little to move science forward. It simply supports (rather than proves) current theory. In other words, finding it proves nothing...it simply fails to *disprove* something...boring.

Science often makes greater strides forward from our failures and mistakes than it does from our successes.

Yes, but the truth is that science NEVER proves any theory. All it does is find evidence in support of a theory. More evidence means more confidence. If it can be used to predict, that is yet more evidence of the truth of a theory. Ability to predict from a theory has great utility.

As a theory matures, getting closer and closer to the truth, there will be less and less wrong with it, and less and less opportunity to disprove it with contravening evidence. Still, often it's the last 10%, or 1%, or .1% which is the most interesting. If we actually found the Higgs boson, perhaps we'd also find that we could do something useful to us with it, or even with the certainty that it existed.
AZNative
QUOTE (GCurry @ Sep 10 2008, 08:14 AM) *
Yes, but the truth is that science NEVER proves any theory. All it does is find evidence in support of a theory. More evidence means more confidence. If it can be used to predict, that is yet more evidence of the truth of a theory. Ability to predict from a theory has great utility.

As a theory matures, getting closer and closer to the truth, there will be less and less wrong with it, and less and less opportunity to disprove it with contravening evidence. Still, often it's the last 10%, or 1%, or .1% which is the most interesting. If we actually found the Higgs boson, perhaps we'd also find that we could do something useful to us with it, or even with the certainty that it existed.


True, however if we cannot prove the existence of the BEH, or even more interestingly find a new mechanic that explains the phenomena that predicted the BEH in the first place, a whole new flurry of theoretical work will begin.

Which is at least *as* exciting, if not more so, than proving the existence of the Higgs itself.

This is actually why the LHC is so exciting for us, you could *almost* call it a win-win scenario for physicists.
uriel81
Higgs Boson, that most fascinating of all hadrons!!!

Interesting 'bout Hawking popcorn.gif

Thank you AZNative... that what I thought rofl.gif They trying to prove some Einstein dude correct... but only $12 Billion. horse.gif

QUOTE (AZNative @ Sep 10 2008, 08:03 AM) *
First, Hawking's has a history of better against himself. This is the man responsible for a large chunk of the theoretical work done to prove the existence of Black Holes, yet he had a standing bet with Roger Penrose in which he took the position that Black Holes did NOT exist. It was a friendly bet, but something he has sort of become well known for doing.

Second, there are many physicists why are hoping we do not discover the Higgs Boson. In fact, it would actually be rather boring if we did. Proving the existence of this particle does little to move science forward. It simply supports (rather than proves) current theory. In other words, finding it proves nothing...it simply fails to *disprove* something...boring.

Science often makes greater strides forward from our failures and mistakes than it does from our successes.


--------------
adamquestor
QUOTE (AZNative @ Sep 10 2008, 11:03 AM) *
...

Science often makes greater strides forward from our failures and mistakes than it does from our successes.


No truer statement. You've been reading Charles Liu.

IMO, the biggest news will likely come from the ILC part of the LHC. We may uncover the nature of Dark Matter/Energy. This is big news, because we will then know what most of the universe is made of. Contrary to popular belief, the matter we see/experience is only about 4% of the universe. We don't know what the majority 96% of the universe is made of. The ILC may reveal that.

http://www.linearcollider.org/cms/?pid=1000000
adamquestor
QUOTE (Llydis @ Sep 10 2008, 11:04 AM) *
As far as I know, that thing can't create a black hole big enough to actually do anything. Those black holes would be so small they'd dissapate rather quickly.

Now, if you want a scarier thought, it's theorized that in around 60 billion years our nearest neighbor galaxy, Andromeda, will collide with our galaxy. The two galaxies will generate enough energy to burn each other to death while both supermassive black holes at the center of each galaxy will end up merging with one another to create an even bigger supermassive black hole.

Our little end of the galaxy could either be flung out into space, or right at the beginning of the event. But, I'd say if we don't destroy each other with ray guns, we'll be okay since we'll have developed space travel by that point. Hopefully.


Um, probably not. Please read Charles Liu's article on Colliding Galaxies in the Sept 2007 issue of Natural History. The collision will start in about 3 billion years and there is a very remote chance that a supermassive black hole will develop. So far only one supermassive has been detected in a galactic collision, in galaxy G515 and is under intense study because it is so unique.
Randys
dont know what all the fuss is about, end times are here anyway...we all will watch as the chosen fly up into the sky...
rottmom
QUOTE (bushwa @ Sep 10 2008, 12:38 AM) *
May I have all of your money, please?


No, give it to me. You see I have this large sum of money coming to me but they told me I needed to give them all of your money first before I could collect the millions owed to me.

So if you would kindly deposit your money in my off shore bank account, I will gladly share my millions with you when I get them.

Sound like a good deal?

Seriously, I wouldn't worry about this, Earth isn't going anywhere and humans aren't getting out of this mess that easily.
AZNative
QUOTE (adamquestor @ Sep 10 2008, 10:00 AM) *
No truer statement. You've been reading Charles Liu.


No, I just had an amazing (and brilliant) post-grad advisor that was very good at motivating people when things didn't go as planned smile.gif

But I certainly will read it now...thank you.
airbor504
Hopefully, the people working on the LHC weren't fifth from the bottom of their class!!
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